MapTool 1.3 Bugfix Build 75

[jfrazierjr]

just curious about the general state of things:
-is this the last 1.3 build, or are there some things left for a b76?

At least 1-2 more builds. b76 already has some fixes and a feature or two, check the change log

-when you have decided to go for 1.4, does that mean a big lock goes on 1.3bFinal and any bugs, small changes etc. will be in the first release of 1.4?

No. 1.4 will be a fairly big "reset" and lot's a stuff we will be broken/missing for months. Basically, we will be removing a number of bad things and keeping the good things and and replacing the bad things we took out over time. Just not sure what those bad things are at this point.

- will the first release of 1.4 be 'the next incremental step after 1.3bFinal with one or two new feats, or will you go for a big overhaul?

See above. Think of the Bionic Man where they ripped off both his legs, eye, etc and rebuilt from scratch. Only problem is that he will be crippled until his new "limbs" are attached, one at a time.

Basically we will start from scratch writing the new parts first, and THEN adding back in some of the stuff that already exists and works right or at least ok and then modifying to fit the new structure.

-and when the 1.4 build is started how long do you think it will take for build 1?

Not real soon is about all I can say.

[Cweord]

From what your saying Joe, 1.4 is far more like 2.0

Major Reboot, change in scripting support (I know at one point Trevor was looking at changing the engine, but I don't know how far that got)etc

[Azhrei]

just curious about the general state of things:
-is this the last 1.3 build, or are there some things left for a b76?

There will be a b76. Haven't you seen my comments in other threads that say, "this is fixed in b76"?

-when you have decided to go for 1.4, does that mean a big lock goes on 1.3bFinal and any bugs, small changes etc. will be in the first release of 1.4?

1.4 will be a large architectural shift in the way things are done internally in MT. I expect there will be a significant delay before 1.4.b01 comes out after the final, final version of 1.3.

I know you can't predict the future but, I think its a safe assumption that you have had discussion about what to do in 1.4 and how to start...

We've had many discussions and tried to clarify what is on the short list and what is on the long list. Craig was planning to make an announcement in the appropriate forum but got sick and it never happened. Perhaps soon...

On the whole: you lot are doing a bang of a job!! my deepest thanks for the huge effort you put in this. Keep up the good job!!

Thanks. Little notes like that help provide motivation.

I have a list of about 40 things that I'd like to see fixed before 1.3 goes final. They won't happen. In fact, I'd be surprised if more than a half-dozen are changed before 1.3 goes "gold". Some are just not practical given what is on the horizon for 1.4 and others are "nice to have" but are not required; and continuing to add features just means more cycles of testing.

Rumble (and jfrazierjr) seem to have the "bouncing template" problem fixed and there have been other fixes waiting for b76. I have a game tonight so it'll be Wednesday at the earliest before b76 is out (and I need to get new builds of CT and IT deployed before jay has me lynched!). And then fixes will be left to the general contributors while Craig and I work on the major stuff in 1.4. We are now in "feature freeze" mode where new features won't be added without a really, really, really good reason.

whited has been doing valuable work on the sourceforge bug tracker (cleaning it up for 1.3 so we don't forget things as we go to 1.4) and has also been working to get our build system more streamlined.

jfrazierjr will be setting up a forum for volunteers to help test bleeding edge builds of MT. whited's work on Maven should make the testing process a bit simpler for "snapshot" builds of 1.4.

And I still receive patches from the community as a whole. CoveredInFish sent a patch to provide timestamps so that macros could measure real time (i.e. clock-on-the-wall time). Patoace just sent me another Spanish translation update. And so on. The people here are extremely helpful in putting together a full package and it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is without the help of everyone! So you should all get together for a (virtual) beer and slap each other on the back and congratulate yourselves!

[Cweord]

Az, is the VBL patch making it to b76?

[wolph42]

Az, is the VBL patch making it to b76?

you should move that line to your sig.

Az, jfrazierjr: thnx for the update. Az: no I've been a bit 'less' active on the forum lately and had not noticed the 'will be fixed in b76'. I've mainly focused on stuff for my framework and general question on the forum concerning 'how do I...'.
Furthermore as Cweord stated (and a lengthy discussion has already spent on) what you describe really sound like 2.0, but that's just MHO.

and finally: ALL YOU LOT READING THIS: YOU GET A BIG FAT VIRTUAL PAT ON YOUR BACK FROM ME AND HAVE A NICE BIG COLD FRESH GOLDEN BEER!!

[Cweord]

Well, as it has been said there were some issues with the age of the patch . . . .

and I have been after this for 2.5 years, so if there is a chance, would like to see it in 1.3

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php ... =+topology

Now to go find that beer

[Guy Dude]

Well, as it has been said there were some issues with the age of the patch . . . .

and I have been after this for 2.5 years, so if there is a chance, would like to see it in 1.3

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php ... =+topology

Now to go find that beer

The images arent loading so I'm not sure but are you suggesting one-way vision blockers? Could be useful for hills and cliffs.

[Cweord]

I hadn't been looking at anything that complicated, the primary idea had been to start the map with VBL everywhere, and then cut in to it when you drew or placed items.

The other idea idea reversed that so that when you placed an item it would add VBL rather than remove it, so you could drop in vehicles or walls inside your map (not tokens as that would require far more complexity and rewriting vbl every move).

You could have stamps to drop in circles (or hexes to avoid the complexity of a circle) to cover over tree trunks for trees so you don't get all the edges of the branches (that would be a huge performance drop).

That was the original idea, I am not sure what of the above the current implementation does but it's somthing

[Craig]

Craig was planning to make an announcement in the appropriate forum but got sick and it never happened. Perhaps soon...

Yeah its about time that guy got off his backside and po.... Oh wait... Doh, ok let me post it now

Edit: Well I seem to have lost ability to create a post in this forum so I guess it will have to wait a bit longer

[Kzintzi]

howdy guys

just a quick question in regards to VBL and how it' calculated. I remember Trevor aaaaages ago talking about (and showing examples written by the guy who worked it out) a completely different way of working out VBL that was insanely fast, could be worked out in real time, and it appeared to be one of those watershed moments where Trevor said "oh, is that how it's done". I can't remember the actual thread (it was at least 12 months ago) unfortunately, but dorpond and cweord may remember it - the demo application (it wasn't a "movie" but links to the actual java app) had a bunch of pillars arranged in a circle, and a light source moved between them. from what I remember it was grey, and as the light source moved around it cast dark grey shadows across the apps window.

so the actual question is (and it's more of a reminder in case people forgot about it because it was absolutely awesome), is firstly can anyone else remember the thread and point me at it again, and secondly, is that one of the features going to be used in MapTool 2.0?

[jfrazierjr]

It won't. From what little off board discussion about it could understand, it solves one problem only to create a totally different one. I was looking into it a bit ago, but it was out of my depth.

However Craig is all over that part of the code for 1.4 and while he may use some of the techniques, it can't be copied whole cloth. In a nutshell, 1.3 let's the java objects determine intersections of various areas, but thats not efficient speed wise. His code and probably most of 1.4 will actually do the math directly.

[Azhrei]

Edit: Well I seem to have lost ability to create a post in this forum so I guess it will have to wait a bit longer

Doh! I thought I had you all set?! Lemme' take a look...

... 15 minutes later ...

Okay, I've changed the access permissions to the Announcements forum for everyone in the "Staff" group. At this point that means the major contributors and forum users. So try again, Craig, and let me know.

[kristof65]

Ok, so my group finally updated to b75 (from b63, no less) last session. For the most part, things went pretty smooth, and we had few issues.

There were a couple of minor things that happened that may/may not be related to b75 - I'll mention them here, but chances are they are more related to the campaign file than b75 - won't have anyway of knowing, though, until we've played a few more sessions. Oh, and for the first time I had the setting that allows individual views for the PC tokens. Don't recall if it was in b63, if it was it definitely wasn't on then. Finally, I had one token set to be visible only by owners - it was a ghost who was appearing to only one PC.

Anyway, the most "major" of the issues we had was that at a couple of points, one of the player's - not the same player each time - stopped getting updates of where everyone else's tokens were. At the same time, the rest of the group stopped getting updates of where their token was. Chat, macros, etc, were still working for them, though. To fix it they had to disconnect and then reconnect.

As I said, this could be related to the campaign file - I had 4 maps on it that were different levels of a castle. Each of the levels was created from a rather large png file, and then VBL was added in for each level.

Other than that, I was happy with b75.

[LeopoldVonRanke]

Other than that, I was happy with b75.

Wow, and judging by the bug fix list for b76, that could really be it... except for the VBL drawing
Maybe that will really be the last...?