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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:38 pm 
osman wrote:
Edit: No, it's worse. It only starts working when you select the token, AND have the 'Selection' window open & visible. Hmmm...

I believe that's on purpose. Otherwise what if there were a dozen tokens all with the same hot keys defined?

In general it's better to use the campaign macros for hot keys, since you can be sure that everyone has the same macro contents and you don't have to worry about which token is selected. (Although the campaign panel does have to be open for them to be active, I believe.)


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:18 am 
Is it just me, or are objects no longer "On top" of the grid in this release?


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:51 pm 
raeflondon wrote:
Is it just me, or are objects no longer "On top" of the grid in this release?

The short answer is "yes". See item numbers 5 and 6, below. Is this different than it used to be? I don't know. It's possible.

The drawing order is:

1. Board - meaning the background text and any map that is part of the background (not the same as dropping an image on the Background layer).

2. Drawables on the Background layer

3. Images on the Background layer (called "stamps")

4. Drawables on the Object layer

5. Images on the Object layer (called "objects" or "markers")

6. Grid

7. Light from light sources, and auras

8. Drawables on the Token layer

If the current view is that of a Player (or GM in "View As Player" mode), the following two are skipped:
8A. Drawables on the Hidden layer
8B. Images on the Hidden layer (called "hidden tokens" or "hidden objects" depending on their use)

9. Images on the Token layer (called "tokens")

10. Movement of unowned tokens

11. Movement of owned tokens

12. Distance and Token Name labels from #10 and #11 (called "distance labels" or "movement labels")

13. Text Labels (called just "labels")

14. Fog

14A. Soft fog is drawn first
14B. Hard fog is drawn over the top of the soft fog

15. Vision overlay (this is the thin white line that outlines the selected tokens visible area, or the visible area of the token under the mouse if owned)

16. Overlays (this is a generic "paintable" object; the Pointer when the Spacebar is held down, the little "light bulb" when View>ShowLightSources is turned on, VBL when the VBL editing tool is active, and so forth)

17. Grid coordinates (letters along the left, numbers across the top)

If you've turned on the "Collect Performance Data" option, the above list will give you an idea of how much time is taken in accomplishing each of those pieces (measured in ms).


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:56 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
The short answer is "yes". See item numbers 5 and 6, below. Is this different than it used to be? I don't know. It's possible.

Yes, it seems to be different. When running b81 both drawings and images on the object layer are on top of the grid just like it's shown in the video tutorial:
http://www.rptoolstutorials.net/videos/ ... ayers.html

In b82, it's just as you described in your post. Object images and drawings under the grid.


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:44 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
raeflondon wrote:
Is it just me, or are objects no longer "On top" of the grid in this release?

The drawing order is:

2. Drawables on the Background layer

3. Images on the Background layer (called "stamps")

4. Drawables on the Object layer

5. Images on the Object layer (called "objects" or "markers")


I'm curious - do you know what the rationale is for drawing images after drawables? It means that, for instance, you can't put down floor tiles and then draw walls over them on the same layer, or put down terrain stamps and then draw roads and rivers over them. (I'm not suggesting changing it at the moment!)


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:04 pm 
teejaydub wrote:
I'm curious - do you know what the rationale is for drawing images after drawables? It means that, for instance, you can't put down floor tiles and then draw walls over them on the same layer, or put down terrain stamps and then draw roads and rivers over them. (I'm not suggesting changing it at the moment!)

The basic idea was how you might normally build up a map, especially outdoor maps. Consider an encounter area on an island. You select the water texture for the base map texture. Then on the background layer you draw with a filled shape of the island with a sand texture. Then you maybe draw in a few more textured areas with some vegetation also on the background layer. Then you position a few larger images as background stamps on the island to represent the broken up ship hull or some huts.

For your example go about it the other way from your description. Draw the floor areas out with textures on to a non-descript background and then drop in wall objects like those found in Torstans add-on pack. That way you can have drop-shadows on your wall images to lend depth to your map.


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:50 pm 
Phergus wrote:
For your example go about it the other way from your description. Draw the floor areas out with textures on to a non-descript background and then drop in wall objects like those found in Torstans add-on pack. That way you can have drop-shadows on your wall images to lend depth to your map.


Ohh, right. That makes sense. I usually use Torstan's and other similar tiles and don't do any drawing, but sometimes if I'm in a hurry I just draw walls as lines - and I have to put them on the Object layer, which seems wrong. But I see the logic now. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:38 am 
raeflondon wrote:
Azhrei wrote:
The short answer is "yes". See item numbers 5 and 6, below. Is this different than it used to be? I don't know. It's possible.

Yes, it seems to be different. When running b81 both drawings and images on the object layer are on top of the grid just like it's shown in the video tutorial:
http://www.rptoolstutorials.net/videos/ ... ayers.html

Well, I certainly wouldn't want drawables above the grid, since then it would be much more difficult to measure those drawings without selecting the measurement tool, dragging between two points, reselecting the pointer tool, reselecting the layer (because the stupid pointer tool doesn't remember the layer when you switch away from it). That's a lot of clicking to check a distance or size.

Quote:
In b82, it's just as you described in your post.

Yeah, that's because I typed it in while looking at the code. 8)

I'll skim through the commit log and see if there's any comment as to why it was changed. Nothing jumps out at me, though; it could be changed back if that's the case...


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:49 am 
It needs to be changed back. Having the Object layer above the grid helps with feeling of depth.


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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:53 pm 
Phergus wrote:
It needs to be changed back. Having the Object layer above the grid helps with feeling of depth.


Agreed. Having the grid over my table/chairs/evil alters/etc. makes the map look very flat and takes away some detail from some of those objects that you want to stand out.

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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:08 pm 
I usually have my grid off, except when drawing. I think a nice compromise would to have the grid above the drawables on object layer, but below images. I sometimes draw on the object layer to cover parts of an image on the background layer. It would be really noticeable if the grid was below the drawable on the object layer.

Reading the post before, apparently that's how it was before(??). Any specific reason for the change?

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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:43 pm 
I lean towards aliasmask's suggestion. I felt it jarring to have object images over the grid, but I can see the use in drawings being over the grid still.

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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm 
aliasmask wrote:
I usually have my grid off, except when drawing. I think a nice compromise would to have the grid above the drawables on object layer, but below images. I sometimes draw on the object layer to cover parts of an image on the background layer. It would be really noticeable if the grid was below the drawable on the object layer.

Yeah, it seems weird to split the Object layer in two with the Grid, but that's actually how I would prefer it as well, based on what I would like to show up or not show up over the Grid.

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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:41 pm 
Maptool has always had object stamps above grid and background stamps below. This was by design a long time ago and it should remain that way until 1.4 where we will introduce layers. Changing stuff at this phase if the game brings bad mojo.

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 Post subject: Re: MapTool 1.3 Release Candidate Build 82 (1.3-RC5)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:33 pm 
I've changed it back. Any other comments on the rendering order while I'm in there...?


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