RPTools.net

Discussion and Support

Skip to content

It is currently Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:29 am 






Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Previous topic | Next topic 

  Print view

Author Message
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:07 pm 
There is an option in the Campaign Properties (or Preferences) to turn auto-reveal on.

This seems like a great feature which basically removes the Fog of War as the tokens are moved into the Fog of War.

In combination with Vision Block, as in the light/vision video tutorial, this is a great feature because the GM does not need to reveal the Fog of War manually.

However, this feature seems to only work when the GM moves the tokens...when players move the tokens the auto-reveal feature does not trigger.

This seems consistant with the note in the Campaign Properties (or Preferences) which has "GM Only" written in the brackets.

I am wondering if this is done for security reasons (i.e. a player could move his token to some place that he shouldn't just to see what is there) or if this is a limitation of the auto-reveal feature.

In my group, I trust the players enough to not to move somewhere where they should not (just to reveal the FOG) and thus I would prefer if all token movements (by GM or not) would trigger the Fog of War reveal.

Once a player makes a token the only way I have found that the Fog Of War will auto reveal around the new location is of the GM picks up the token, moves it and then moves it back...which is kind of a pain in the butt.

Even if the GM just has a "refresh" option in the token's context menu which would perofrm the auto reveal for the current token position, it would be better.

It seems to me that the only way, currently to use this feature, is for the GM to make all the token moves.

Is this correct or am I missing something?

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 12101
Location: Tampa, FL
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:49 pm 
This whole thing is being revised/rewritten right now. Not just the nomenclature but the implementation as well.

There has been an option when starting the server called "Individual Views" but it was never truly individual for "tokens", only for "clients".

So jfrazierjr has been toiling away making A LOT of changes to the way fog is exposed and managed within MapTool. He's got it 95% done so with a few more changes and some testing, we'll release build 77 and there will be huge need for testing and experimenting!

One problem we've got is documentation. It's going to be rather intricate as to how the various pieces all fit together so if anyone out there is a technical writer (hint, hint ;)) please send a PM to him and he'll add you to the Testers group on the forum where you'll have access to pre-release builds of the code as well as information on what needs to be tested and hence, documented.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Deity
 
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 7:56 pm
Posts: 6300
Location: Las Cruces, NM
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:17 pm 
LordAshes wrote:
Is this correct or am I missing something?

You can have players auto-expose on movement with the current releases. Just turn on Players Can Expose on the Start Server dialog and then tell them all to go into their preferences and turn on Auto-Expose. While it says GM Only it never actually was and it was also per client.

As Azhrei said this is all being reworked for the next build and hopefully it will make more sense then.

_________________
Call me, Hex Boy.

Visit http://www.darkisle.com for photos of castles, cairns, standing stones, and other ancient sites in the British Isles.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:58 pm 
Thanks for the advice...I will try that. I was looking for such a option in the Preferences but I don't think to look under the server options.

BTW, thanks to all for such a speedy reply.

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Deity
 
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 5410
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:10 am 
Previous to b75(I believe), if a player selects the Auto Reveal preference, his movement reveals no matter what the GM setting is (which was BAD!!!).

I then changed this(in b75 or b76... not sure which) so that the Server setting for Players Can reveal vision both allowed manual reveals and auto reveal on movement by players. There were a few complaints that this should be separated, so working with someone else(aku), we separated this into two different server dialog settings.

In the next build(b77), there will be a sub option under Players can reveal vision on the start server dialog:
Attachment:
start server dialog.png
start server dialog.png [ 14.26 KiB | Viewed 3864 times ]


Hopefully, this is now clear. The preference option is still there and required. The preference setting allows the GM to control whether the GM movement of PC tokens(NPC tokens NEVER autoreveal!) autoreveals or not. The GM can turn this on/off during the game as needed.

_________________
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:31 pm 
Okay...I got it working...mostly...

I have am trying to do something a little bit like the Vision/Light tutorial...

I have a grassland background and a very simple building (one big room - just a square made of walls and tiles inside). There is a 2 tile double door on one side. I have applied the Vision Blocking to the walls and shrouded the whole thing in FOW. Lastly a placed an PC token just outside the building and cleared a bit of FOW around her. I have the setting set so that auto reveal is on (as per the above posts in this thread).

As the PC token is moved (by GM or player) around the building the FOW clears and the vision is limited to the areas the token can see...perfect!

The problem occurs when the PC decides to enter the building. As far as I can tell a PC (token) can not be moved into darkness. When I try to make token into the unexplored building (as a player) the token will not move into the darkness. Fair enough...I recalled that in the tutorial the GM had to "remove" the vision blocking on the "door", to let the character in. So this is what I did. I used the vision blocking tool in reverse (i.e. remove) and removed it from the door space. This worked perectly fine on the GM side but the player's view did not update until the player moved the token. So, for example, since the token was standing right beside the door (i.e. right beside the vision blocking) the token had to be moved down one square and then back to refresh the view and cause the token to see inside through the (now open) door.

It seems the player can "refresh" the token's view manually by pressing CTRL+I (expose visible).

Is there any way to have this done automatically (i.e. when GM removes or adds Vision Blocking have the vision of tokens automatically update)?

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Deity
 
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 5410
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:44 pm 
LordAshes wrote:
Is there any way to have this done automatically (i.e. when GM removes or adds Vision Blocking have the vision of tokens automatically update)?


Hmmm... changes to the topology (the internal name for VBL) should fire an event that would be broadcast to clients which would update their view. I don't have time to look into it right at the moment, but will check it out when I have some time.

_________________
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 12101
Location: Tampa, FL
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:24 am 
The VBL has always worked like that, ie. players must manually expose the fog if they wish to do so.

Having said that, your idea of firing an event on VBL change to cause the PC tokens to re-expose is probably useful. I can see situations where the GM is working on VBL in a different section of the map from the PCs while the players discuss strategy, and in that situation the PCs would be constantly exposing fog over and over with no effect. But I suppose that doesn't hurt anything...


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:44 pm 
Quote:
The VBL has always worked like that, ie. players must manually expose the fog if they wish to do so.


I am not exactly sure what you mean by "players must manually expose the fog". Do you mean that they have to manually do the CTRL+I after the GM has changed some aspect of the VBL?

As I said, for me the auto reveal works great except in the case where the GM removes some part of the VBL (not FOG)...such as the VBL over a door that was preventing the characters from seeing inside but needs to be removed because the characters have opened the door.

As I said, this is what the vision/light video tutorial seems to be doing except that in the tutorial it is all done by the GM so the vision is updated autoamtically whereas if a player is connected it seems he must CTRL+I to update his visison.

Is there a better way to simulate such situations (i.e. characters coming up to a building and not being able to see inside until they open the door) or is the CTRL+I the best way?

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Deity
 
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 5410
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:50 pm 
Ok.. after some playing around, I see what you mean. If a player has SOFT FOW and VBL is modifed, their view is updated. However, if VBL is modifed in an area that is covered by HARD FOW, the view is not updated. I will look into finding the issue and submitting a patch.

_________________
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:59 pm 
Thanks. So it looks like curently the only way to get around this is to have the GM request the player to hit CTRL+I to update the view.

Not a big deal I guess :)

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Deity
 
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 5410
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:11 pm 
LordAshes wrote:
Thanks. So it looks like curently the only way to get around this is to have the GM request the player to hit CTRL+I to update the view.

Not a big deal I guess :)


As GM, the best thing to do for this is to select all tokens and do CNTL+I your self. No player involvement needed.

_________________
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Giant
 
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 182
 Post subject: Re: Auto-Reveal FOG For GM Only
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:54 pm 
Right! I forgot that GM can choose any token and do the update himself. Thanks for the tip.

_________________
"We often compare ourselves to the U.S.,
and often they come out the best...
But they only have the right to bare arms,
while we have the right to bare breasts"
Busting The Breast by Bowser & Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 243 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:14 am

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 1 guest





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Style based on Andreas08 by Andreas Viklund

Style by Elizabeth Shulman