Official(?) MT 1.3 Documentation Project

[zEal]

Let me try to make this simple: In "FORMS" the focus is on design, look and using the HTML to accomplish that while macros use a scripting language which is NOT HTML.

...

Front end design (the form) and the back end design (the macro) affect each other, but each is different.

I appreciate you trying to re-explain your reasoning. I'm well aware of how macros work, forms work, and how they interact.

If the focus is on design, should the "Forms" chapter perhaps be the "HTML" chapter; explaining how to get good looking results using the stunted HTML and CSS spec we're able to use?

I'd probably place the forms chapter behind the macro chapter since its almost impossible to use forms without writing macros.

Almost impossible? I'm not trying to be facetious, but is there any way for forms to function without macros? I don't know of one.

[Gamerdude]

I appreciate you trying to re-explain your reasoning. I'm well aware of how macros work, forms work, and how they interact.

If the focus is on design, should the "Forms" chapter perhaps be the "HTML" chapter; explaining how to get good looking results using the stunted HTML and CSS spec we're able to use?

My apologies, I did not mean to imply you weren't aware. I realized the post could be taken that way and hence part of why I rewrote it (please go back and look, hopefully I did a better job). Also note the "Forms" chapter is now "Dialogs, Frames, and Forms" broadening its scope and covering all the topics that involve HTML coding.

I'd probably place the forms chapter behind the macro chapter since its almost impossible to use forms without writing macros.

Almost impossible? I'm not trying to be facetious, but is there any way for forms to function without macros? I don't know of one.

As I stated in my edited reply, to just display static data a form will not require any macro coding at all, and can be quite functional in that manner.

[zEal]

As I stated in my edited reply, to just display static data a form will not require any macro coding at all, and can be quite functional in that manner.

Could you provide an example of an instance when displaying static data in a form would be more beneficial than simply displaying it using (non-form) html?

(In partial response to your edited paragraph; please don't interpret my questions or comments to be caustic, they're not. We're just sort of brainstorming here. )

Also note the "Forms" chapter is now "Dialogs, Frames, and Forms" broadening its scope and covering all the topics that involve HTML coding.

Keep in mind that it is fairly common to use html when outputting straight to the chat pane.

[Gamerdude]

As I stated in my edited reply, to just display static data a form will not require any macro coding at all, and can be quite functional in that manner.

Could you provide an example of an instance when displaying static data in a form would be more beneficial than simply displaying it using (non-form) html?

Ok, as I am understanding of what can be done with forms etc, you can have a token hidden until the players 'find it', say something with writing on it. You can have a purely static form containing what the players can read (book cover, plaque, etc.) and they can mouse over the form pops up and they can read the text.

In my games I like to give a small hand out so they players can look at the 'text' themselves without me reading it off. the make notes argue etc and I don't have to read and re-read it to them. The example I gave above would do the same thing and not be as 'cold' as typing it into chat.

Of course, this is me and what bare understanding I have of MT so far, what I've gleaned off of the Wiki and stuff.

*wipes brow* whew...thanks for letting me know zEal. I was starting to worry I was in for a beat down *silly grin*

[jfrazierjr]

As I stated in my edited reply, to just display static data a form will not require any macro coding at all, and can be quite functional in that manner.

Could you provide an example of an instance when displaying static data in a form would be more beneficial than simply displaying it using (non-form) html?

Ok, as I am understanding of what can be done with forms etc, you can have a token hidden until the players 'find it', say something with writing on it. You can have a purely static form containing what the players can read (book cover, plaque, etc.) and they can mouse over the form pops up and they can read the text.

In my games I like to give a small hand out so they players can look at the 'text' themselves without me reading it off. the make notes argue etc and I don't have to read and re-read it to them. The example I gave above would do the same thing and not be as 'cold' as typing it into chat.

Of course, this is me and what bare understanding I have of MT so far, what I've gleaned off of the Wiki and stuff.

*wipes brow* whew...thanks for letting me know zEal. I was starting to worry I was in for a beat down *silly grin*

Just in case you did not know it, when you enter notes onto a token AND put it on the Object layer, players can "click" on the object and get a popup with the contents of he note displayed with a nice textured background like the statsheet has. Additionally, as long as you included the opening html tag as part of the text, you can include html and it will markup the text very well(limited by java's html implementation of course!)

[Gamerdude]

Just in case you did not know it, when you enter notes onto a token AND put it on the Object layer, players can "click" on the object and get a popup with the contents of he note displayed with a nice textured background like the statsheet has. Additionally, as long as you included the opening html tag as part of the text, you can include html and it will markup the text very well(limited by java's html implementation of course!)

Thanks JF for clarifying my slight confusion. Lots and lots of information to process.

to zEal, I can see why calling that chapter something like "HTML use in MT", but to me putting the focus on the HTML and not on the use withing MT (by using the MT terms like Form, Frame, Dialog, etc.) could lead someone to believe we've accidentally included a chapter on web page design. I will think on this more and maybe come up with a better title.

Mmmmm so many interesting points to work with

Al B./GamerDude

[Azhrei]

Additionally, as long as you included the opening html tag as part of the text, you can include html and it will markup the text very well(limited by java's html implementation of course!)

The <html> tag actually isn't needed in many cases as MT is forcing the use of HTML internally. However, it's not consistent so it's best to include it.

One thing that I like doing with the Notes and GM Notes areas is to enclose the entire thing in a <div> so that I can add style="width: 40em" and control the width of the notes field that pops up. Of course, presentation control with the bastard form of HTML we have is pretty crude, at best.

But because HTML can be used in the Notes' fields I'm also inclined to call the chapter HTML. Although that's kinda geek-y, so maybe "Text Formatting" and leave it at that? Now it applies to tokens-as-objects, HTML frames, and even HTML in fields in an Wiki: input() function...

[Gamerdude]

mmmmm Every day life gets more interesting.

I've been tearing through MT trying to learn things and get to the point I could do more than make a rough outline... then there are some other things that came my way over the last week.

I got invited to the "insiders" forum of a RPG publisher to provide feedback on their products as well as serve as an editor and even freelance write adventures and such (the writing actually pays me enough to get some popcorn and a soda at the movies, but I don't do this to make it rich). I've also been selected to fill a major volunteer position within the company.

No, I can't say who or what position yet. I have to wait for them to make the official announcement first. But I will say it's the kind of thing I have wanted to do in gaming for years.

BUT, that means I won't have the time to do a solid documentation set all by myself. I can oversee the project as manager, contribute some of the writing but I can't do the entire project a proper job on my own now with these new responsibilities.

So, if some folks (particularly who are more MT savvy than I am) are willing to step up to the plate and help, then I can stick with it as part of the team.

I do wish to thank everyone for their encouragement. This has been exciting for me and I even amazed my wife with the work I was putting in on this.
AL B.

[Azhrei]

mmmmm Every day life gets more interesting.

Isn't that a Chinese curse? "May you live in interesting times..."

But congratulations on the new direction in your life -- it sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun with it!

So, if some folks (particularly who are more MT savvy than I am) are willing to step up to the plate and help, then I can stick with it as part of the team.

I was always hoping you'd have some people volunteer to share the load with you. I guess that's now more of a "need" than a "want".

I do wish to thank everyone for their encouragement. This has been exciting for me and I even amazed my wife with the work I was putting in on this.
AL B.

Thanks for your efforts so far!

[CoveredInFish]

To keep this project alive I volunteer as type-setter for this. I'm no pro but have reasonable experience in setting documents in this (expected) size and type.

I propose setting the docs in LaTeX and have set up a svn repository for working on it. But - sadly - i'm not so well qualified in doing the actual *writing*. So the valuable part wont be done by me. But if you wanna contribute text to this post it - so i can set it - or contact me via other means.

If somebody feels I do something wrong here - I'm absolutly open for discussion.

You can preview my doings so far here but since its almost content free it might not be that interesting

[wolph42]

To keep this project alive I volunteer as type-setter for this. I'm no pro but have reasonable experience in setting documents in this (expected) size and type.

I propose setting the docs in LaTeX and have set up a svn repository for working on it. But - sadly - i'm not so well qualified in doing the actual *writing*. So the valuable part wont be done by me. But if you wanna contribute text to this post it - so i can set it - or contact me via other means.

If somebody feels I do something wrong here - I'm absolutly open for discussion.

You can preview my doings so far here but since its almost content free it might not be that interesting

A couple of remarks:
1. looks stunning great job so far
2. how on earth do we edit this? Its a pdf so far
3. I used to be latex savvy about 1 or 2 centuries ago... but that was 1 or 2 centuries ago. I guess more people won't be very 'into' latex to (anymore)
My suggestion would be to setup a google docs document which we can all edit, this keeps things plain and simple and I believe google docs keeps a repository.
I also think I already setup a maptool account in gmail but that's a long time ago. I''l check and let you know
4. I guess for starters we can start with copy pasting from the wiki
5. I also think that there are a very limited 'real savvy writers' that have time, so lets just chip in and see where it gets instead of claiming that you can't write.

*going to look for that account now*

[Azhrei]

You can preview my doings so far here but since its almost content free it might not be that interesting

A couple of remarks:
1. looks stunning great job so far

That does look sharp.

But I think I agree that a group-editable approach is probably best. Even if people need to be "authorized" to make changes, sort of like the wiki does now (you need to register).

GoogleDocs is probably a good way to go as it allows the community to view what we've done (I'm using "we" loosely here!) and offer suggestions without letting them actually edit it. (If I understand GD's authentication approach.)

It just occurred to me that my GoogleVoice phone number automatically transcribes any audio message left for me into text and then sends me an email of the result. I could dictate to myself some of this stuff and then (mostly) copy/paste it into the document. Cool.

Not sure I'll do that but it would be an easy way to get the spoken word converted to the printed word.

[Hawke]

I'm here and willing to help, just tell me how and where and I'll get right on it =)

[CoveredInFish]

If you wanna contribute in a google docs file I'll set something up. I can convert to latex for the eye candy myself - no need forcing you guys to learn it

ATM the latex code is in google code and I could give you user rights. But a google docs file is probably much easier.

...workworkwork...

Okay, here is a open-for-all google docs file containing all that is in the latex files right now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_a3 ... y=CNmlv_gH

[wolph42]

nice, now the next question is, how does one convert a wiki article to google docs? Yes you can copy paste but that makes a real mess, unless we decide that thats ok and then later clean up the doc?

I noticed e.g. the short cut key in the appendix and well I wrote the article in the wiki, I also noticed that Ahz did a good job of 'generalizing' it (I wrote it for windows) and also tidying it. I tried to copy paste it and that worked surpisingly well, safe the fact that the tables are very hard to edit and are HUGE.

suggestions anyone...