Going back to basics (my brainstorming)

[Paradox]

This thread was born out of the Developer's Notes, and I thought it was derailing that thread.

My basic point was that it would be nice to have a stable 1.3 version (which is pending!), and some documentation.

Stemming from those posts, let paraphrase something I recall Azhrei writing. "MapTools has a steep initial learning curve, but once you get past that, it's very rewarding and amazing in it's usefulness."

Instead of speaking for a nameless majority, I'll speak for myself: I haven't got past that initial curve yet.

But I haven't tried real hard either. Barely at all. So let's not disparage MapTools for my temporary inadequancies. (I say temporary, because even as I write this, the urge to do something about it is stirring)

The first challenge is motivation. Perhaps unfairly I ask myself, "Why must I become a computer programmer to enjoy the bounty of MapTools?" I realize that I probably don't need to become a computer programmer, but I am fighting my own perceptions, based on what I've read on the boards. It looks scary.

The second challenge is simpler.. I just don't know where to begin.

TO BE CONTINUED

[zEal]

The wiki should definitely have some documentation on actually using the application, not just extending it. I'm incapable of writing to a level that is not my own, so I'm not the person for that task... I'll just stick with the functions.

Any takers?

[Paradox]

Okay..

Still thinking this out.

This is will be bloody obvious to 99% of the RPTool Regulars, but who is the initial target audience of MapTools?

I am going to humbly suggest it is the GM.

Oh players must use it, and understand how to use it along with the GM.. However, the process of running an online game with MapTools logically seems to begin the GM.

What must a GM use MapTools to prepare?

1.) Maps
A.) Making them
B.) Importing them
2.) How those Maps are presented to the players (Fog of War, lighting, etc..)
3.) Monsters and NPCs, and tokens to represent them.
A.) Token Tool

Editorial: I am NOT going to start using the word TOKEN every other word. Token this, token that. For me, that has been an issue with documentation thus far. Too much in-house jargon from "jump street". If you're coming over from Paper and Pencil, the term Token is meaningless. Yes, Token needs to be introduced to the User's Vocabulary. Advanced users will probably use it quite a bit more than beginneers. However my goal is to make advanced users. Baby Steps. Eventually the term token will be second nature.

4.) Macros
A.) Which partially entails assigning game information to tokens that represent Players, NPCs, and Monsters. Some SMART people call this assigning PROPERTIES to TOKENS. This also means assigning game information to the symbols and that represent PCs, NPCs, and Monsters.
B.) Which also entails either writing your own macro's, or using a premade system of token management. I.E. Veggiesama, DeviantNull, etc... Learning how to use them.

Editorial: I think I want to focus on some popular "Suites" of Macro Management. Demonstrate how those work, and use that as a platform towards the goal of Advanced Usage.

(That's a good point! What is my end goal?
That a user with no prior knowledge of MapTools set up a game and run it effectively with minimal time and pain. My goal is not teaching them how to code)

5.) Organize and Run a Game.

TO BE CONTINUED.

[Paradox]

(What am I writing? I think aloud while I write, hence my conversational style. So this is not a Guide, or a How-To..

This is literally me thinking of the nature of the problem. Phrasing the question.

If I understand the question, then I can start to answer it.

How do I run a game on MapTools?
What do I have to do to get ready? What are the minimum steps that I need to do?
Do I make a map first? Do I make Tokens first? Do I download someone's macro-managment system and figure out how it works?

What is the logical progression in preparing an online Campaign with MapTools 1.3?

Then what do I need to teach the players, so that they can join me?)


Now.. you folks out in the audience. You're welcome to break the 4th Wall and answer me. Pretending I'm thinking alound (because I am), and reply like the Voice of God. Just don't judge me.

What do I hope to achieve?

I hope to learn how to use Maptools!
And then I can help explain it to somebody else, who might also be starting from a very basic understanding.

This is what comes before the How-To-Guide. Primordial Soup.

That must make me a Titan.

[Rumble]

1. How do I run a game on MapTools?
2. What do I have to do to get ready?
3. What are the minimum steps that I need to do?
4. Do I make a map first? Do I make Tokens first?
5. Do I download someone's macro-managment system and figure out how it works?
6. What is the logical progression in preparing an online Campaign with MapTools 1.3?
7. Then what do I need to teach the players, so that they can join me?)

I'll take a swing at it, based on what I did. I learned to use MapTool starting from roughly zero, last August, and have taught myself the inner squishiness of the tool over that time period. I'm going to think out loud, because I think these are good questions but they need adjustment or prioritizing. Feel free to disagree with anything I say below, though!

1. This question is too big and vague to answer. I'd drop it in favor of "What is 'running a game in MapTool?'" or even "What is MapTool?"

2. Again, too broad for a neat answer. Also, maybe in the wrong position in the list.

3. Minimum steps: Okay, I've already come up with 13+ steps, at minimum, to get a game up and running with MapTool. Perhaps that is a challenge to overcome!

4. It doesn't actually matter. It might make more sense, though, to have the "environment" (e.g. the map) first, and then place player tokens on it - this is more like setting out a map on the table and having your players put their minis on it.

5. I would say no, absolutely not. There are brilliant frameworks available but I think they run afoul of the assumptions issue. It won't be long before you can throw down with a pre-built macro-management system, but I'd really start small.

6 and 7 are where I might lay out my experience: I started by watching a couple of the video tutorials to get an idea of where things were in the program and what some of the buttons and jargon meant. Our first game was nothing but tokens and a map. No macros whatsoever - we simply used /roll to show our dice rolls.

A little later, I began to explore the RPTools forums, and learned about TK's macros. I tried them out, learning a little about how macros were made in the process. Basically, i reverse-engineered macros and guessed at what some things did.

I spent a lot of time on the image side of things for a while, making map tiles and stuff to put in MapTool. It wasn't until a mid-b40's build that I actually dug into macros with a vengeance, and I just learned from reading stuff on the forums and trying things. For a while, I made individual macros for everybody; then I began to mess with Library Tokens, and really got into the more complex stuff.

So all I can really say is that there's no methodical tool (save the tutorials, which are out of date) to get someone from zero to 60 with this product. In my own experience, none of this was hard, as such, but I had to dig into it myself.

[Paradox]

I'll take a swing at it, based on what I did. I learned to use MapTool starting from roughly zero, last August, and have taught myself the inner squishiness of the tool over that time period. I'm going to think out loud, because I think these are good questions but they need adjustment or prioritizing. Feel free to disagree with anything I say below, though!

Fair enough!

1. This question is too big and vague to answer. I'd drop it in favor of "What is 'running a game in MapTool?'" or even "What is MapTool?"

2. Again, too broad for a neat answer. Also, maybe in the wrong position in the list.

That's fine.. I was just warming up. Getting the brain engaged. Really, one of the toughest challenges is just beginning. That's why it's handy to have something labeled "DO THIS FIRST" even though it strictly doesn't have to be the first thing you do.

A structure or framework on which to hang additional concepts is really helpful.

3. Minimum steps: Okay, I've already come up with 13+ steps, at minimum, to get a game up and running with MapTool. Perhaps that is a challenge to overcome!

Cool. Start listing those steps Rumble. Try to put them in a rough order (but if they're not strictly in precise order I won't come back later and hold it against you.)

As each step is learned, I'll try to document them, and put them in a logical sequence.

4. It doesn't actually matter. It might make more sense, though, to have the "environment" (e.g. the map) first, and then place player tokens on it - this is more like setting out a map on the table and having your players put their minis on it.

I understand what you're saying. But something has to be a first step, if making the map serves to inform the rest of the process, its fine to call it the first step.

Later, as users understood that whole process, they can choose to do something else first.

5. I would say no, absolutely not. There are brilliant frameworks available but I think they run afoul of the assumptions issue. It won't be long before you can throw down with a pre-built macro-management system, but I'd really start small.

This surprises me, but I won't argue.

So all I can really say is that there's no methodical tool (save the tutorials, which are out of date) to get someone from zero to 60 with this product. In my own experience, none of this was hard, as such, but I had to dig into it myself.

I have watched a good handful of the videos. They are good. I don't want Brad to read this and think that I'm knocking them in any way. Having said that, they jump around a little. Maybe that's just me.

I would argue, there is no existing methodical tool to get somebody up and running.. but that doesn't mean that one could not be created. I understand that the essence of MapTools is the openess and versatility of it. Nevertheless, that does not preclude an instructive process that ends with a finished product as well as basic understanding that leads to the ability to self teach oneself.

I guess that is an admission that the Video Tutorials are not doing it for me, but they do help.

So what are those 13 steps?

[Paradox]

The wiki should definitely have some documentation on actually using the application, not just extending it. I'm incapable of writing to a level that is not my own, so I'm not the person for that task... I'll just stick with the functions.

Any takers?

I'd certainly help if I could! Even by asking questions!

[zEal]

I have watched a good handful of the videos. They are good. I don't want Brad to read this and think that I'm knocking them in any way. Having said that, they jump around a little. Maybe that's just me.

...

I guess that is an admission that the Video Tutorials are not doing it for me, but they do help.

I'm not a fan of video tutorials either, they're nice to get the gist of something and as introductory material, but simply fall short when it comes to reference. Keep in mind that Brad's videos are sorely out of date(and he'd be the first to admit it ), and I believe he initially attempted to keep up with the rapidly changin face of MapTool, which might account for the jumping around you felt. I'm sure once 1.3 is final he'll make some new ones that knock your socks off.

I would argue, there is no existing methodical tool to get somebody up and running.. but that doesn't mean that one could not be created. I understand that the essence of MapTools is the openess and versatility of it. Nevertheless, that does not preclude an instructive process that ends with a finished product as well as basic understanding that leads to the ability to self teach oneself.

I agree that such a methodology is possible, but a daunting task; the reason being the very openness and versatility you stated. MapTool is designed to be used with practically any gaming system, so a methodology that works for one, could very well be completely wrong for another. Various methodologies could be created for specific game systems, but if they're too detailed the issue of copyrights would come to the forefront.

[Rumble]

So what are those 13 steps?

I lost my original copy of them, but here's a shot at what they were:

1. Obtain MapTool.
2. Obtain Players
3. Obtain an Idea (what are you going to do with MapTool)
4. Obtain a map image (download one, make one, etc.)
5. Place the map image in your MapTool Resource Library
6. Obtain some token images (using TokenTool or by finding them in the RPTools gallery, etc). Tokens are just "what your miniature would look like if you smashed it really flat and...made it look like something else"
7. Place the token images in your MapTool Resource Library.
8. Create a new Map in MapTool from the map you've created.
9. Drag some tokens from your resource library onto the map.
10. Save your work as a "Campaign File" (the .cmpgn file) using the File menu
11. Save it again.
12. Contact your Players (you did remember to find some, right?)
13. Tell them you wish to play a game.
14. Do several things to enable MapTool to run as a server over your network (port forwarding, IP junk, etc.)
15. Using the file menu, start a maptool server.
16. Tell your players about the server, and have them try to connect to it.
17. When they are connected, everybody wiggle your tokens around and do RPG-like stuff. Chat with each other, roll dice in the chat window, draw pictures on the map, and see what works.
18. Undo all that crap you just did, and get down to actually playing your scenario.

Somewhat tongue in cheek, and these are steps I just fly through at this point, but it's not a simple 1-2-3 process.

On the other hand...it's not ridiculously hard, either. In fact, I just remembered I wrote a "MapTool Quick and Dirty" how-to back when b45 was the latest. The file is here.

[jfrazierjr]

5. I would say no, absolutely not. There are brilliant frameworks available but I think they run afoul of the assumptions issue. It won't be long before you can throw down with a pre-built macro-management system, but I'd really start small.

This surprises me, but I won't argue.

I agree 100% percent. Brad has in the past made Basic and Advanced Videos. I would put anything more than simple /roll or [tokenProperty] or [d20+tokenProperty] into yet a third category called "Super Freakin Advanced Videos" (TM).

There have been more than a few people I have seen on other sites that seem to have this perception that you have to know how to program to use Maptool and that is not the case in any way shape or form. As I noted in the other thread, if you want to see Maptool without the current macro stuff (and what is close to matching the videos) go download 1.3b32 or so. Not a single macro function in there that was not in Maptool years before hand (well.. there might be a few... but nothing fancy) and pretty much 90% of the things on the current WIKI were not available then, just back in June of 2008.

[jfrazierjr]

Keep in mind that Brad's videos are sorely out of date(and he'd be the first to admit it ), and I believe he initially attempted to keep up with the rapidly changin face of MapTool, which might account for the jumping around you felt. I'm sure once 1.3 is final he'll make some new ones that knock your socks off.

I would not say they are that sorely out of date, especially for the casual user who may not have the time to learn all the macro syntax right away. Since the Videos were made, Macro/macro panel changes are 90% of the non bug fixes. Trevor has added a few nice features such as aura and square light(and I am sure others I have missed), but while they are not unwanted, they are not super sexy features either.

Anyone watching the Videos should be able to do almost everything with Maptool can do today with the exception of advanced macro syntax and the changes to the macro panel (which is "missing" now).

[Rumble]

5. I would say no, absolutely not. There are brilliant frameworks available but I think they run afoul of the assumptions issue. It won't be long before you can throw down with a pre-built macro-management system, but I'd really start small.

This surprises me, but I won't argue.

I agree 100% percent. Brad has in the past made Basic and Advanced Videos. I would put anything more than simple /roll or [tokenProperty] or [d20+tokenProperty] into yet a third category called "Super Freakin Advanced Videos" (TM).

There have been more than a few people I have seen on other sites that seem to have this perception that you have to know how to program to use Maptool and that is not the case in any way shape or form. As I noted in the other thread, if you want to see Maptool without the current macro stuff (and what is close to matching the videos) go download 1.3b32 or so. Not a single macro function in there that was not in Maptool years before hand (well.. there might be a few... but nothing fancy) and pretty much 90% of the things on the current WIKI were not available then, just back in June of 2008.

Now that I think about it, I believe 1.3.b32 is the version I started with, and our games rocked out just as hard then as they do now (honestly, maybe more...I've mentioned this before, but I'm thinking about moving back to the less macro-intensive stuff in the interest of speed and also in the interest of not overlooking the forest for the trees).

But anyway, yeah: I would not recommend that new users immediately download a system "framework." There's too much assumed knowledge even in them (what's a token? what are all those buttons? Lib:what?).

I like the frameworks. I use one myself, but I and my players essentially "came up together" using MapTool and are very knowledgeable about it. Starting as a new user, I think they would have been more than I wanted (and somewhat intimidating!)

MapTool is incredibly flexible, but it is MapTool. At its heart, it's a shared map, and I wouldn't want to lose sight of what we all ultimately do with it: push little mans around on a map as we play our favorite game with friends.

[zEal]

On the other hand...it's not ridiculously hard, either. In fact, I just remembered I wrote a "MapTool Quick and Dirty" how-to back when b45 was the latest. The file is here.

So... when are you going to copy that over to the wiki?

[Rumble]

On the other hand...it's not ridiculously hard, either. In fact, I just remembered I wrote a "MapTool Quick and Dirty" how-to back when b45 was the latest. The file is here.

So... when are you going to copy that over to the wiki?

I have suddenly developed an acute case of missing hands. I ab typing wid by dose at dis bobent.


Actually, heck...I could probably do it tonight. I ain't got nothin' much going on.

[Azhrei]

I suppose the question comes down to the individual's viewpoint.

I'm a programmer at heart, so I tend to love the detail -- the minutia that is the automation of an application. (I see my wife do something manually once or twice in a spreadsheet and I can't figure out why she hasn't automated it! And even more frustrating, why she won't let ME automate it for her! )

I view MapTool the way an author might view a word processor. I think the software is a tool towards achieving a goal. The goal is NOT how to use the tool. The goal is gaming -- the tool is auxiliary to that. After all, I can game without using MapTool or any other software program.

When a writer first opens MS Word, do they feel intimidated by the toolbars and menus and so on? Probably. (Remember, we're talking "first time" here.) So how do they get around that intimidation level? Simple: they play with the software. They try "this" and "that" and see what the result is. Perhaps after becoming a little more comfortable with it, they figure what styles are for and then they smack their foreheads because they weren't using styles when the wrote the last four chapters of The Great American Novel, but they're not sure they want to go back and retrofit those chapters.

MapTool is the same. The GM can very easily create a map. They can drag images from a web browser into MapTool and tokens just "magically" appear, no preplanning required. And you're done! You now have a virtual battlemat that you can use to run your game! There are details, of course. What layer did you put the map on? Does the scale of the grid match the scale of the map? How do you change it? Answer those questions and you should be good to go.

For the writer who has already written four chapters, they may stumble upon other features of the word processor by accident. They go to use some menu option and the mouse slips and they choose the wrong option. Or maybe they're just browsing the menus and find something that sounds interesting (can you say "Pivot Point" in a spreadsheet? ).

And so it is with MapTool. After running a few encounters using this simple approach, the GM now feels more comfortable with it and is ready to try new things. Like lighting and vision. Maybe the GM has been clearing the fog-of-war manually (or not using fog at all) but they're browsing the menus one day and there's that "Fog" option on the Map menu. "I wonder that that does...?"

IMHO, we need documentation and/or tutorials and/or slideshows that present the usage of MapTool in a step-by-step manner that will mimic the way a first-time GM is likely to come to MapTool. Perhaps the docs will have some kind of "road map" that plots out the general techniques available to get from point A to point B, with side trips to read about macros and dialogs/frames, a section on conic light, image repositories, and so on.

Whew, that's enough for now.