Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

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Rumble
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Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Rumble »

So, all you people interested in documentation, I have a question: what is your position on putting a page on Frameworks (with links to the relevant frameworks) on the Wiki? I'm of two minds about it.

On the one hand, they are resources for users and for some people they are a really great way to get rolling with MapTool without needing much advanced macro ability or anything - some of the frameworks are drop-in-and-go, almost (I'm not sure they're really ideal for absolute beginners, but they're pretty close).

On the other hand:

1. They're not "official" in any way - that is, they're fan-creations, and even the term "framework" isn't some sort of official term for plugins in MapTool. I wouldn't want to lead users wrong by implying (even if its clearly spelled out) that there are some sort of officially developed "game system plugins" for MapTool (especially because MapTool specifically does not want to do system-specific stuff).

2. I worry about potential liability from copyright. I realize that fan creations are frequently not that big a deal, and that we're trying to increase play of certain games, and I don't care about my own personal exposure in this regard, but I don't want to expose the devs, RPTools, or Craig (since its his wiki) to liability on that front (I'm a librarian and an artist so I'm acutely aware of copyright). Some of the frameworks (if I am not mistaken, and I'm sorry if I am) do contain material that is copyrighted, and making that more broadly available could potentially cause trouble - and I'd hate to have RPTools even linked tangentially in anyone's mind to "trouble."

Mind you, I'm not accusing anyone of anything at all here - but I think it would be worth having people like Giliath, Trevor, Craig, and so forth say "yeah, go ahead."


So in any case, I'd like to write a Framework page, but I don't know if I should. We already have a forum for it, anyway - perhaps the best solution is just to say "these things exist, and this is what they do." More of a glossary item almost.

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Paradox
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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Paradox »

If a page could be done, I'd like to see one.

Initially, I downloaded a framework and it made my head explode.

A few weeks later, I don't think they would make my head explode any more. In fact, I could probably take off with one and live happily ever after.


So.........

Could a general page be done, with a disclaimer that says RpTools does not provide custom frameworks.. which are user based creations. Then the page could explain "this is generally how you work with frameworks. All frameworks are slightly different, but here are some general characteristics that most of them use. Here are some examples of how to make the most of them."

If they're really as easy as you say, a general all purpose page should get most people going.

I hope the Powers That Be will consider this.
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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Rumble »

Paradox wrote:If a page could be done, I'd like to see one.

If they're really as easy as you say, a general all purpose page should get most people going.

I hope the Powers That Be will consider this.
Well, they're not as easy as "drop-in and play," so the page would have to make that clear. But they're not too hard - the problem is, the documentation on the wiki will NOT document the frameworks, actually. I think the only one there is the Dice Box.

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Paradox »

Rumble wrote: Well, they're not as easy as "drop-in and play," so the page would have to make that clear. But they're not too hard - the problem is, the documentation on the wiki will NOT document the frameworks, actually. I think the only one there is the Dice Box.
Seems like a paradox then, pardon the pun.

Sounds like you're literally describing a page that says "Frameworks exist!" *

I guess that is helpful for the very newly initiated. But that's about it. Seems like an awful tease, to allude to a resource that can help but understanding anything about the topic, beyond that, must be a personal journey that must you embark on alone.

Am I misunderstanding?

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by zEal »

Providing a forum for people to discuss their user created frameworks is a relatively "hands-off" approach; providing links or even documentation for them is closer to endorsement, I don't think the wiki needs it. Instructions for handling campaigns and importing tokens should be good enough.

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Rumble »

Paradox wrote:
Rumble wrote: Well, they're not as easy as "drop-in and play," so the page would have to make that clear. But they're not too hard - the problem is, the documentation on the wiki will NOT document the frameworks, actually. I think the only one there is the Dice Box.
Seems like a paradox then, pardon the pun.

Sounds like you're literally describing a page that says "Frameworks exist!"*

I guess that is helpful for the very newly initiated. But that's about it. Seems like an awful tease, to allude to a resource that can help, but understanding anything about the topic beyond that must be a personal journey that must you embark on alone.

Am I misunderstanding?
I suppose you're right, now that I think of it. I was mostly picturing a page that said a) frameworks exist; b) what they are; and c) that they require more than beginner-level understanding of MapTool. However, the page would also link to them, and maybe explain them in a sort of "synopsis", but other than that, we'd need to rely on the designers to document them somehow.

I can envision an introduction to frameworks tutorial - which would really be pretty short - but the first step is to answer the question "should we popularize these more than they are, or leave it to the User Creations forum?" If the former, then we can get some tutorials up (I would be happy to document my framework there, for instance) but if the people in charge would rather keep it low key, then I'd probably skip the specific page on frameworks entirely.

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Rumble »

zEal wrote:Providing a forum for people to discuss their user created frameworks is a relatively "hands-off" approach; providing links or even documentation for them is closer to endorsement, I don't think the wiki needs it. Instructions for handling campaigns and importing tokens should be good enough.

You have phrased it in a wonderfully succinct manner, and hit upon exactly my concern. Okay, with that in mind, I'm content with the "let's just show how you do things in MapTool" approach.

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by jfrazierjr »

Rumble wrote:
Paradox wrote:
Rumble wrote: Well, they're not as easy as "drop-in and play," so the page would have to make that clear. But they're not too hard - the problem is, the documentation on the wiki will NOT document the frameworks, actually. I think the only one there is the Dice Box.
Seems like a paradox then, pardon the pun.

Sounds like you're literally describing a page that says "Frameworks exist!"*

I guess that is helpful for the very newly initiated. But that's about it. Seems like an awful tease, to allude to a resource that can help, but understanding anything about the topic beyond that must be a personal journey that must you embark on alone.

Am I misunderstanding?
I suppose you're right, now that I think of it. I was mostly picturing a page that said a) frameworks exist; b) what they are; and c) that they require more than beginner-level understanding of MapTool. However, the page would also link to them, and maybe explain them in a sort of "synopsis", but other than that, we'd need to rely on the designers to document them somehow.

I can envision an introduction to frameworks tutorial - which would really be pretty short - but the first step is to answer the question "should we popularize these more than they are, or leave it to the User Creations forum?" If the former, then we can get some tutorials up (I would be happy to document my framework there, for instance) but if the people in charge would rather keep it low key, then I'd probably skip the specific page on frameworks entirely.


Also, I think part of this can be linked to Craigs macro tutorial, since it is in a big way going to be building a framework and would be a fairly simple system for framework introduction.
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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Rumble »

jfrazierjr wrote:Also, I think part of this can be linked to Craigs macro tutorial, since it is in a big way going to be building a framework and would be a fairly simple system for framework introduction.
That's a good point - in fact, a couple of my tutorials (macro writing and campaign properties) already use the "MTRPG" (as I have entirely unilaterally named it) for their examples.

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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Merkuri »

Perhaps we could make a page on the wiki that explains the ideas of frameworks and at the bottom have a link to the forum here that contains the frameworks?
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Re: Questions / Thoughts on Wiki Documentation

Post by Craig »

Rumble wrote:
zEal wrote:Providing a forum for people to discuss their user created frameworks is a relatively "hands-off" approach; providing links or even documentation for them is closer to endorsement, I don't think the wiki needs it. Instructions for handling campaigns and importing tokens should be good enough.

You have phrased it in a wonderfully succinct manner, and hit upon exactly my concern. Okay, with that in mind, I'm content with the "let's just show how you do things in MapTool" approach.
Here is my thoughts both zEal and Rumble are correct, if you link to it and describe how to install it then if you are very close to endorsing. If you then go on to describe how to use it then well you might as well be endorsing it.

There are systems that this wouldn't be a problem with (such as the sample system created by Phergus) I don't really have a problem with a well documented frame work for these sorts of systems, although I would place it in its own section and have a big note stating the policy of what can be added.

Saying that library additions like Ruble's dice box that certainly don't infringe on anything and are useful or macro libraries of utilities etc I think the wiki is a great place for them, provided its well documented on how to use them (otherwise its just a list).

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