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Giant
 
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:14 pm
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 Post subject: The Deck Tool
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:57 pm 
The proposal...

A customizable card drawing tool that would allow for the creation of user created decks and random draw and shuffling abilities.

The reasoning behind this and it's value have been discussed in another thread and I can copy and paste it here if necessary.

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Kobold
 
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:01 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:01 pm 
Here's a rough idea of what I'd like to see feature-wise. Note that I tried to put everything into iterations. We shouldn't expect to play MtG in 1.0 :)


Iteration 1
Purpose: Simulate a standard deck of cards. Have the basic abilities to shuffle and look at the cards one by one.

Cards
Standard cards with rank and suit stored in attribute table.
Each has an associated image file.
Each card is stored separately on the drive in the MapTool token format.

Deck
A standard deck of cards (includes jokers).
Deck consists of two card lists: the deck and the discard pile.
The back of the cards is associated to an image file on the Deck-level.

GUI
A simple graphical representation of the Deck and Discard Pile.
Shuffle Button: append Discard Pile list to Deck list and randomize.
Double click flips the top card of the deck.
Click and drag top card of the deck to the discard pile moves the card from the deck list to the discard pile list.


Iteration 2
Purpose: Integration with MapTool.

A third card list is added to the Deck: in play.

Click and drag cards from DeckTool directly to MapTool.
DeckTool associates the card to the "in play" area.
Maptool is passed the path to the card token and a unique id.
Maptool loads the token, adds it to the map and associates the unique id to it.

Click and drag cards from MapTool directly to DeckTool.
Maptool removes the token from the map.
Maptool passes the unique id back to DeckTool.
DeckTool matches the unique id to the card and moves it back to the "discard" area.

Sweep Button: Signals MapTool to delete all card tokens and moves "in play" cards to "discard" area.


Iteration 3
Purpose: Integration with InitTool. Savage Worlds initiative is handled via a deck of cards.


Iteration 4
Purpose: Deck and card customization.

Cards
Can customize cards via an editable attribute table, just like editing tokens in MapTool.
The back of the cards can be associated to an image file on the Card-level, but defaults to the Deck settings.

Decks
Can create decks of any size that can contain any Cards, including duplicates.

Persisted
Ability to save and load cards and decks.

Card explorer window.
Displays the saved Card/Deck files on your drive.
Can click and drag to the Deck explorer window to add them to the Deck.

Deck explorer window.
Displays a sorted list of all cards in the current deck.
Can Add/Remove cards.

MapTool
Cards without an image file display attributes on top of a generic card background.


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Codeum Arcanum (RPTools Founder)
 
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:16 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:03 pm 
Someone draw me a picture and I'll build it

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TheBard
 
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:26 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:08 pm 
Here's a few random Troll thoughts. Note: I've never played anything like Magic The Gathering so feel free to slap me down if any of this doesn't make sense.

It seems there is a need for a set of cards that is loaded at startup. That deck should be able to be

    Shuffled
    dealt(specify a number of cards and a player)
    split into multiple sub decks
The cards themsleves should be able to be
    moved around
    turned face up or face down on a common playing field
    discarded back into the deck or a discard pile
    owned by a player
    displayed to other players
    have tokens placed on them

I suppose you also need the ability to have custom decks that each player loads him/herself. Perhaps there is a point valus associated with cards and so each card would need a properties tab as well.

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Giant
 
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:14 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:19 pm 
Here's a sample card backing for building purposes.


ImageImage

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The Tangled Web A community for players and DMs that prefer to play online pen and paper style rpgs using freeware Virtual Gaming Tables like MapTool. Connect with Game Masters that need players or else recruit for your own game. Now offering pay to play games in addition to our free games! Run with a professional GameMaster and you can rest assured that the show will go on week after week.


Last edited by Duvik on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Codeum Arcanum (RPTools Founder)
 
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:16 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:25 pm 
Looks cool Duvik. Do you want the cards to be that big in the actual tool ? I suppose I could easily scale them on demand.

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Giant
 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:34 pm 
Well, my resolution is 1024x768 and they come up nice looking on my screen but, I just switched to 800x600 and they are freaking huge so, it's your call, I can easily reduce the image a bit but, you couldn't fit as much info on the front and text on magic cards and such would be pretty small as well.

I'd say no more than 50 px smaller on width and 75 or so smaller on height... increasing both numbers by 25 is min min... just gets too small.

Just depends on if one would want to add images and flavor text to cards really.

edit: here's the image reduced a bit...

Image

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Get Paid to Run Games! Check out The Elite Array at The Tangled Web

The Tangled Web A community for players and DMs that prefer to play online pen and paper style rpgs using freeware Virtual Gaming Tables like MapTool. Connect with Game Masters that need players or else recruit for your own game. Now offering pay to play games in addition to our free games! Run with a professional GameMaster and you can rest assured that the show will go on week after week.


Last edited by Duvik on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Codeum Arcanum (RPTools Founder)
 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:36 pm 
Seems like you may want to have a small version for your "hand" and a large detailed version for the currently inspected c ard ?

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Giant
 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:38 pm 
ahhhh yes, excellent idea!!!

I could whip up a 52 card deck as well. Make it a bit original ya know, semi stylized suit icons and pretty numbers and what have you. I'm almost eager enough to get them done tonight :D

Can I assume it's safe to use the first size I posted and we can scale them as needed then?

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Get Paid to Run Games! Check out The Elite Array at The Tangled Web

The Tangled Web A community for players and DMs that prefer to play online pen and paper style rpgs using freeware Virtual Gaming Tables like MapTool. Connect with Game Masters that need players or else recruit for your own game. Now offering pay to play games in addition to our free games! Run with a professional GameMaster and you can rest assured that the show will go on week after week.


Last edited by Duvik on Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kobold
 
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:01 pm
Posts: 22
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:42 pm 
If you're interested in having MtG simulation as one of your goals, I suggest checking out the card image size that wotc uses:
http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=45212


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Giant
 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:46 pm 
First image i posted is only 15px larger in the height than MtG standard so, sounds good eh? ((the MtG cards are a bit cut off it looks like, extra 15px should be just right))

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The Tangled Web A community for players and DMs that prefer to play online pen and paper style rpgs using freeware Virtual Gaming Tables like MapTool. Connect with Game Masters that need players or else recruit for your own game. Now offering pay to play games in addition to our free games! Run with a professional GameMaster and you can rest assured that the show will go on week after week.


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Demigod
 
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:23 am
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:51 pm 
Something about the above is bugging me a little bit so I have to pipe up.

Everyone keeps talking about the deck needing to be shuffled. There is no reason to shuffle the deck when the cards would be drawn randomly. I know it is a semantics thing, but words matter so I just wanted to clarify that we don't really need code for shuffling. We need code for randomly drawing.

An array for the cards would also take care of preventing duplicate pulls and such. Once a card is drawn that array cell is empty so no more cards can be pulled from there. Obviously that would mean a return to the randomizer to try another card, or a redimensioning of the array itself preserving the remaining contents.

As a starting point I would suggest, as Nys did, using an ordinary deck of 52 cards and having it be able to handle probably the easiest multi-person card game out there - War. If you could make a DeckTool that you could play a complete game of War with then you are definitely 25% of the way there.

What it would look like is something like this I think:
Image

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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:55 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:54 pm 
Seems like since you're dealing with a virtual card than any text doesn't actually have to be part of the graphic, but could be an attribute of the card which can be displayed.

I've never played any of the card games so I don't know if that's feasible.

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Kobold
 
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:01 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:56 pm 
I have to respectfully disagree RPMiller. For example, in MtG, there are some cards that allow you to peek at the top x cards of your deck. When the time comes around to draw cards, the app has to provide that player with those same cards.

I suppose some sort of buffering could be done to keep track of what cards have become "known," but it might be easier to just randomize the deck itself.


Last edited by Nys on Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:12 pm
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Location: Albuquerque, NM
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:57 pm 
Quick question! I love what I see, but why are we considering a different tool rather than an addition to MapTool? Maybe I'm pushing for Integration a little bit too much, but I do think that you could definitely combine mini games and deck games into the same tool. In fact, what about playing Sorry! where you have the game board and pieces but have the cards in your hand that are useable. Maybe not the best example. How about Settlers of Cataan where you have the deck pieces available in-game but have a map of the island on there.

I guess maybe... what's the RPTools philosophy about integration versus different tools?


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