Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

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RedDog
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Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by RedDog »

I am really liking MapTool and TokenTool so far (I have not used Init or Dice tool yet). I've been diving into it over the last few weeks and am really impressed what has already been created...I can see a lot of potential in what is already here. As I have have been poking these two programs, these ideas keep rattling around in my head...so I figured I would just throw them out here and see what happens.

I've looked at The Wall and the Forum, so hopefully, the ideas here are not duplicated (too much):

1) Allow the Assignment of Access Levels (ie GM vs Player)
With the direction MapTools is going, I can see it easily being used to implement card and board games. Allowing the primary GM to give higher access levels could make some aspects easier. Dual GMing can also add some flavor to an adventure

2) Implementiation of Teams or Allies
Much like the concept of allies in Warcraft, being able to implement multiple teams would allow for PvP competition. I can see this being very nice for team vs team play. This would affect vision and chat mostly.

3) Selecting a Stack of Tokens
Sometimes, there are so many tokens on a board that doing a hightlight is tough...or if you have several tokens stacked, you have to work at it to get one out.
- CTRL-Left Click to Select a stack
- Right click a stack and have an option to select the entire stack
- Right click a stack and have the option to pull out a single token

4) Token Tool Integration into MapTool Ideas
I've seen several posts on this topic, but I had some ideas to add. There is a request on The Wall to allow for alternate images to be used for the token for affects such as shape shifting. If Token Tool functionality were to be integrated into Map Tools, how about taking it further by allowing several levels to be configurable within the Token Property GUI? These levels might be:
- Base image (for token bases, halos, color coded damage indicators)
- Main Image (for character pictures)
- Overlay Image (for clothing or item changes, other states)
Then, allow up to 5 to 8 images per level that can be selected in for the token on the fly or that can be set through scripting (when it becomes implemented). It would end up being a table of images. the downside would be that if the token were saved, it could make for a pretty fat token (as far as file size). This same sort of result could be handled through scripting once it is available, but this would eliminate this functionality from some users.

5) Animated Dice Throws
Cheesy...yes...but they can be fune. There is something that is taken away when you get an instant response from a button click for a dice roll. Having the option to have dice roll across the board will appeal to some, although having control over the speed would be nice too. I know, it's a fluff feature, but it does add to the anticipation at times. The downside is that it would be difficult to allow on the fly configuration for any size die since the animation has to be pre-coded. Only standard sized could effectively be coded (d2, d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, d100?)

6) Player Vision Height Restriction
Set a maximum zoom-out for players

7) Token Movement and Facing with the Numberpad
When using Number Pad Keys, record the movement path exactly as the player moves. It would be easier for tracking around obstacles that lie in the player's path. The number 5 does work well for committing to the path. Also, could SHIFT-NUM7 and SHIFT-NUM9 be added to allow facing changes? Alternately, Num/ and Num* could be used without SHIFT.

Ultimately, I think that the ability to do more advanced scripting will really make MapTools soar. That is one feature I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on...and that is probably one of the more difficult integrations on the list.

Well, if any of the ideas above have already been proposed, I apologize for the duplicate posting. I am glad to be able to stop the rattling in my brain. Hopefully something here helps improve on these really nice programs.

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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by carpens »

Hooray for point-by-point replies!
RedDog wrote:I am really liking MapTool and TokenTool so far (I have not used Init or Dice tool yet). I've been diving into it over the last few weeks and am really impressed what has already been created...I can see a lot of potential in what is already here. As I have have been poking these two programs, these ideas keep rattling around in my head...so I figured I would just throw them out here and see what happens.

I've looked at The Wall and the Forum, so hopefully, the ideas here are not duplicated (too much):

1) Allow the Assignment of Access Levels (ie GM vs Player)
With the direction MapTools is going, I can see it easily being used to implement card and board games. Allowing the primary GM to give higher access levels could make some aspects easier. Dual GMing can also add some flavor to an adventure
You can allow others to log into your server as a GM. Setting up additional permissions beyond that is probably Not Worth the Trouble.
2) Implementiation of Teams or Allies
Much like the concept of allies in Warcraft, being able to implement multiple teams would allow for PvP competition. I can see this being very nice for team vs team play. This would affect vision and chat mostly.
Perhaps as an option along with individual player views, you could assign "team views"; allowing more than one chat channel would take care of the rest.
3) Selecting a Stack of Tokens
Sometimes, there are so many tokens on a board that doing a hightlight is tough...or if you have several tokens stacked, you have to work at it to get one out.
- CTRL-Left Click to Select a stack
- Right click a stack and have an option to select the entire stack
- Right click a stack and have the option to pull out a single token
Hmm, maybe improve ability to select and act on tokens from the tree instead.
4) Token Tool Integration into MapTool Ideas
I've seen several posts on this topic, but I had some ideas to add. There is a request on The Wall to allow for alternate images to be used for the token for affects such as shape shifting. If Token Tool functionality were to be integrated into Map Tools, how about taking it further by allowing several levels to be configurable within the Token Property GUI? These levels might be:
- Base image (for token bases, halos, color coded damage indicators)
- Main Image (for character pictures)
- Overlay Image (for clothing or item changes, other states)
Then, allow up to 5 to 8 images per level that can be selected in for the token on the fly or that can be set through scripting (when it becomes implemented). It would end up being a table of images. the downside would be that if the token were saved, it could make for a pretty fat token (as far as file size). This same sort of result could be handled through scripting once it is available, but this would eliminate this functionality from some users.
This would be interesting, but not a priority IMO.
5) Animated Dice Throws
Cheesy...yes...but they can be fune. There is something that is taken away when you get an instant response from a button click for a dice roll. Having the option to have dice roll across the board will appeal to some, although having control over the speed would be nice too. I know, it's a fluff feature, but it does add to the anticipation at times. The downside is that it would be difficult to allow on the fly configuration for any size die since the animation has to be pre-coded. Only standard sized could effectively be coded (d2, d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, d100?)
NWtT, IMO.
6) Player Vision Height Restriction
Set a maximum zoom-out for players
Don't see a real need for this- if you're using fog of war, have vision and light implemented correctly, and eventually have individual player views, why would you need to limit how far out the player can zoom?
7) Token Movement and Facing with the Numberpad
When using Number Pad Keys, record the movement path exactly as the player moves. It would be easier for tracking around obstacles that lie in the player's path. The number 5 does work well for committing to the path. Also, could SHIFT-NUM7 and SHIFT-NUM9 be added to allow facing changes? Alternately, Num/ and Num* could be used without SHIFT.
Yes. Alternatively, face tokens with Num keys, use + to move forward and - to back up a step.
Ultimately, I think that the ability to do more advanced scripting will really make MapTools soar. That is one feature I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on...and that is probably one of the more difficult integrations on the list.
Double Yes. Even if you're not running a complicated game, more advanced scripting allows for more automation of mechanics that you don't enjoy playing out a couple hundred times a game.
Well, if any of the ideas above have already been proposed, I apologize for the duplicate posting. I am glad to be able to stop the rattling in my brain. Hopefully something here helps improve on these really nice programs.
Thanks for showing up to the party!

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Jector
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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by Jector »

Welcome aboard, RedDog. :)
RedDog wrote:
3) Selecting a Stack of Tokens
Sometimes, there are so many tokens on a board that doing a hightlight is tough...or if you have several tokens stacked, you have to work at it to get one out.
I know in 1.3.20 double clicking a stack brings up a box with thumbs for the tokens in a stack, allowing you to select one you want.
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Hawke
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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by Hawke »

Jector wrote:I know in 1.3.20 double clicking a stack brings up a box with thumbs for the tokens in a stack, allowing you to select one you want.
I think this only works if they are exactly the same size. If you have rescaled/replaced the token so it bleeds outside the cell, double clicking doesn't work - it pulls up the properties. I think a {CTRL,SHIFT,ALT}+doubleclick to pull up the same box except with all overlapping characters would be neat.

You can move tokens with the numberpad (5 or d will "drop" the token at its current location) but not facing yet. I'm definitely in favor of having a modifier key work there to change facing as well.

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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by mrobviousjosh »

carpens wrote:
RedDog wrote:
5) Animated Dice Throws
Cheesy...yes...but they can be fune. There is something that is taken away when you get an instant response from a button click for a dice roll. Having the option to have dice roll across the board will appeal to some, although having control over the speed would be nice too. I know, it's a fluff feature, but it does add to the anticipation at times. The downside is that it would be difficult to allow on the fly configuration for any size die since the animation has to be pre-coded. Only standard sized could effectively be coded (d2, d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, d100?)
NWtT, IMO.
I'm tired, some of your ideas sound good, but, for now, I've got got to say that I agree 100% with carpens about absolutely not needing animated dice. Sorry. :(

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Post by Mjollnir »

I partially agree with you josh. When it comes to the need of animated dice I would say no. But since this would contribute to the atmosphere actually playing at a real table I would say this is one feature that would make the VTT more attractive.
Or maybe I can give you a different view. Most of the people on this forum are GMs with technical know-how. Can you tell the same thing about your players? I cant they just want to roll the dice without spending time learning how to create macros and preparing their dice. Don't be cross with me. This is just my view of things.
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Post by carpens »

While I agree with the idea that animated dice-rolling would be cool, and can be fun for players, the main reason I don't want them is the same reason I would rather do without most of the rolling in a face-to-face game. Namely, the time it takes.

In a "simple" game that only requires a single roll per player per turn, it wouldn't matter so much. But in most RPGs, you potentially end up with dozens of rolls that need to be made every single turn. I prefer having these things run automagically so that my players and I can focus on the action and the story rather than the mechanics.

For example, in the last session I ran my four PCs got into a minor epic battle with a small band of kobolds that was further complicated when Nick Nolte* showed up with his hobgoblin henchmen. If we had been rolling dice by hand, or by manual commands in MT, the whole thing would have taken well over an hour to resolve. As it was, with just a few simple macros set up for both PCs and NPCs, we were able to keep up a good pace and finish the encounter in 30-40 minutes.

*- it may not have actually been Mr. Nolte, but it sure looked a lot like him

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Jector
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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by Jector »

Hawke wrote: I think this only works if they are exactly the same size. If you have rescaled/replaced the token so it bleeds outside the cell, double clicking doesn't work - it pulls up the properties. I think a {CTRL,SHIFT,ALT}+doubleclick to pull up the same box except with all overlapping characters would be neat.
Worked for me with three very different sized characters.

I would like to have animated dice. It would be a neat "OOoo!" factor and help replicate that table feel, as was mentioned. Would also help get some of the old school people on board who are reluctant to go digital.
However, I see it as a low priority over play functionality. A down the road kinda thing.
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Post by RPTroll »

A few Troll musings on animated dice:

I can say I see no need for animated dice but one of my cohorts loves it. He was lobbying hard for another VTT due to the dice effect.

There is lots of functionality I'd like to see in maptool and Trevor is normally the only one that can integrate most of that functionality. This may be one of those times when another developer takes the lead to create the rolling mechanic to be integrated into maptool. I'd guess you'd want this window optional and also mirror the dice rolls in the chat window.
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Re: Various Toughts on MapTool Improvements

Post by Azhrei »

Jector wrote:I would like to have animated dice. It would be a neat "OOoo!" factor and help replicate that table feel, as was mentioned. Would also help get some of the old school people on board who are reluctant to go digital.

However, I see it as a low priority over play functionality. A down the road kinda thing.
To be honest, rolling of dice could be done completely client-side. That way the person rolling the dice would get the nice visuals while no one else needs to see them (or hear them). Some way to integrate that into the chat would be helpful. Perhaps the player types in what they want to roll "2d6+13" and in addition to seeing his dice roll across the screen, he also has a chat message automatically generated with something like "I rolled [2d6+13]". If he's impersonating his token, it will look okay (not great, but okay). Perhaps allow the properties of the token to hold common dice strings that can be selected from a dropdown box when the animated dice option is turned on.

It would also be possible to extract the dice information from a regular chat message, but that could get really complicated, what with exploding dice values and such...

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Post by dorpond »

FYI: I made a bunch of dice (not 3d) png files for Trevor and recorded all of the dice rolling sounds effects in my studio a few months ago so I would expect to see something more appealing to the senses down the road. No 3d physics, but something more appealing nonetheless. :)

I just hasn't been a priority lately.
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Post by mrobviousjosh »

dorpond wrote:FYI: I made a bunch of dice (not 3d) png files for Trevor and recorded all of the dice rolling sounds effects in my studio a few months ago so I would expect to see something more appealing to the senses down the road. No 3d physics, but something more appealing nonetheless. :)

I just hasn't been a priority lately.
And while I do think it's cool, I don't believe it should be a priority. We need to get things like individual vision right first, IMHO, and then many DMs wouldn't bother with animated dice (because, to be completely honest, it slows the game down). When would I like to see an animated die in my games? That critical saving throw or crucial search check for traps- not when I'm rolling fireball damage (and then have to add everything together). While it could be really cool, I see this as more of an optional thing. Besides, if we're really that concerned about players learning macros, maybe the GMs should just write some out for their players to use (I've helped some of my friends with them without spending much time at all).

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Post by Jector »

Certainly it should be low priority. Function first.

Still it would be nice. It need take no more than a half second. A quick roll sound and a blurred die shows up and clears to your roll (or it could just roll on the screen and disappear, no need to actually show the numbers there).

Eventually I hope for the dice to totally immerse me in gaming. I want them to knock over miniatures, get cocked on scenery forcing a reroll, and roll off MapTools and onto the desktop making you hunt for them in other apps. :)

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Post by trevor »

Jector wrote: "Found it! It was in I-Tunes. darnit! It's a 2."
Ahhhh man that would rule !

*shuffle shuffle mumble mumble*figure out how to do that*hack hack hack*
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Jector
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Post by Jector »

Uh oh! I may have made a tactical error. :lol:
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