RPTools.net

Discussion and Support

Skip to content

It is currently Mon May 22, 2017 12:32 pm 






Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Previous topic | Next topic 

  Print view

Author Message
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:44 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Atlanta, GA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:16 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
Really? I guess it depends. I've heard some very good multi-track MIDI stuff, but beyond some of the simple things I've done with it I don't know very much about it, so you could be right that it's limited. :?:

It's just sounds soooo synthetic to me. It's the reason why I don't understand how so many people like Midnight Syndicate. I like recordingsreal instruments and real orchestras.

_________________
Kristian


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:54 pm
Posts: 1391
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:46 pm 
What about tracker modules, like .mod, .xm or .s3m?

The files are generally much better quality, and smaller than mp3s by a long shot.

For instance, this is less than 500kb but is two minutes long (which is a quarter the size of an mp3)
http://modarchive.org/index.php?request ... uery=34654

This one is 420kb, but is almost six minutes long, putting it at around 8% of the filesize for an equal length 128kbps mp3.
http://modarchive.org/module.php?70716

(For either one, you can click "Java Player Disabled" in order to enable it, and then click again to play the track in a java applet)

The modarchive has a huge collection of free to download tracker music.

There's also a decoding and playback library already written for Java: https://virtualuniverse.dev.java.net/jmod.html

Amaril wrote:
I like recording real instruments and real orchestras.


I like them too. But I also like electronic music. Including obviously synthetic instruments. All depends on the music and what you're doing with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:44 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Atlanta, GA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 pm 
palmer wrote:
What about tracker modules, like .mod, .xm or .s3m?

The files are generally much better quality, and smaller than mp3s by a long shot.


It's like playing Super Nintendo at best.

Seriously, a 64kbps WMA file is fairly comparable to a 128kbps mp3 and far better than any MIDI track, and it's half the file size of that 128kbps mp3 file.

_________________
Kristian


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:54 pm
Posts: 1391
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:15 am 
I disagree on the quality of tracker modules, but that may be because I have a broader exposure to the format.

The fact is, trackers use full quality PCM wave audio - uncompressed sound data, unlike mp3 or wma. It is not bleeps and bloops or midi.

It is certainly not a chiptune.

Also, incorporating wma into an OGL program isn't going to happen.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:44 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Atlanta, GA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:24 am 
palmer wrote:
I disagree on the quality of tracker modules, but that may be because I have a broader exposure to the format.

The fact is, trackers use full quality PCM wave audio - uncompressed sound data, unlike mp3 or wma. It is not bleeps and bloops or midi.

It is certainly not a chiptune.

Also, incorporating wma into an OGL program isn't going to happen.
Or MP3 for that matter.

Here's my take. Don't bother incorporating audio file playback, just audio transmission. I use Ventrilo in my games not just for voice chat, but for audio soundtracks, too. I run a second instance with a line-in from my mp3 player and broadcast to all participants. I don't rely on Ventrilo to manage the files, just to broadcast the audio.

_________________
Kristian


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 12065
Location: Tampa, FL
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:41 pm 
Amaril wrote:
palmer wrote:
Also, incorporating wma into an OGL program isn't going to happen.
Or MP3 for that matter.

Well, MP3 is possible in a variety of ways, but regardless MP3 is not a good format for other reasons.

Quote:
Here's my take. Don't bother incorporating audio file playback, just audio transmission. I use Ventrilo in my games not just for voice chat, but for audio soundtracks, too. I run a second instance with a line-in from my mp3 player and broadcast to all participants. I don't rely on Ventrilo to manage the files, just to broadcast the audio.

Which means we don't need MapTool to do audio at all then. Which would be my preference. ;)

Honestly, I can't see how the complexity of adding audio support to my campaign is going to be a make-or-break proposition for anyone using the program. Yet it's likely to be a real headache from the programming perspective. (Audio reproduction has strict timing requirements during playback that must be adhered to for long periods of time. Something difficult to do on any system, but particularly so in an interpreted language environment.)

If there is going to be some type of audio support, Ogg is probably the way to go. Ogg Vorbis supports variable bit-rate audio, 10 user-definable levels of compression, user-selectable quality vs. compression trade-offs, and a lot more. Or use FLAC for a completely lossless audio format. Given its open source heritage, I'd bet we could find a Java library for it. There's even a lossless video component, Ogg Theora.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:44 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Atlanta, GA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:51 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
Amaril wrote:
palmer wrote:
Also, incorporating wma into an OGL program isn't going to happen.
Or MP3 for that matter.

Well, MP3 is possible in a variety of ways, but regardless MP3 is not a good format for other reasons.
You're right. I was thinking of encoding, but I forgot about LAME anyway.

_________________
Kristian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Kobold
 
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:33 am
Posts: 17
Location: Colorado, USA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:39 pm 
Ok, Just another point. i'm doing two different tests.
1st just a midi format player
the
2nd something that can handle .mp3 files

using sound effect triggers, that the gm can produce by just a button click or hotkey command.

I am seeing two entirely different line codes here, gave me a headache after awhile.

So i am trying this. using pure java..
I will be trying to make the small applet that contains the ability to use both midi (for sound FX) and mp3 (for bg and battle music) set for streaming so one can sync it with your players....

A note Streaming music, java and dial-up connecting dislike each other.

_________________
"Is it bad when you can use someone's coffee as your creamer?"

A Quote by Jessica Clymer (a.k.a. JenRyu Ikara)


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:45 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Doylestown PA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:06 pm 
sprtdrgnlvr wrote:
Ok, Just another point. i'm doing two different tests.
1st just a midi format player
the
2nd something that can handle .mp3 files

using sound effect triggers, that the gm can produce by just a button click or hotkey command.

I am seeing two entirely different line codes here, gave me a headache after awhile.

So i am trying this. using pure java..
I will be trying to make the small applet that contains the ability to use both midi (for sound FX) and mp3 (for bg and battle music) set for streaming so one can sync it with your players....

A note Streaming music, java and dial-up connecting dislike each other.


I'm having a really hard time not laughing at this...it brings a smile to my face. The idea of streaming ANYTHING over a dial-up connection is just...frightening. Yeesh!

But...this:
Azhrei wrote:
If there is going to be some type of audio support, Ogg is probably the way to go. Ogg Vorbis supports variable bit-rate audio, 10 user-definable levels of compression, user-selectable quality vs. compression trade-offs, and a lot more. Or use FLAC for a completely lossless audio format. Given its open source heritage, I'd bet we could find a Java library for it. There's even a lossless video component, Ogg Theora.

brings a big happy smile to my face. I prefer Ogg Vorbis for a variety of reasons, the OSS license being but one of them (the fact that it's a good container is just as important).

_________________
0+0=1, for very unstable CPUs.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 12065
Location: Tampa, FL
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:22 pm 
Orchard wrote:
brings a big happy smile to my face. I prefer Ogg Vorbis for a variety of reasons, the OSS license being but one of them (the fact that it's a good container is just as important).

I've got a plug-in for iTunes (EggDrop) which is an Ogg reader so that I can use the 25GB+ of music I've ripped from my CDs inside the iTunes interface. Unfortunately, it's not perfect because I ripped a lot of that music using VBR (variable bit rate) encoding and EggDrop doesn't handle that too well when it comes to displaying the length of the track, for instance.

And I've found that of the few handhelds that will play Ogg (such as the iRiver models), none of them do so very well. :( Again, the problem being the VBR stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:45 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Doylestown PA
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:28 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
Orchard wrote:
brings a big happy smile to my face. I prefer Ogg Vorbis for a variety of reasons, the OSS license being but one of them (the fact that it's a good container is just as important).

I've got a plug-in for iTunes (EggDrop) which is an Ogg reader so that I can use the 25GB+ of music I've ripped from my CDs inside the iTunes interface. Unfortunately, it's not perfect because I ripped a lot of that music using VBR (variable bit rate) encoding and EggDrop doesn't handle that too well when it comes to displaying the length of the track, for instance.

And I've found that of the few handhelds that will play Ogg (such as the iRiver models), none of them do so very well. :( Again, the problem being the VBR stuff.


That's unfortunate.

UT2k4 won big kudos in my book for using Ogg for it's audio, and the Bare Naked Ladies release some of their concerts in FLAC (you have to PAY for them still, but hey, it's worth it if you are a fan).

_________________
0+0=1, for very unstable CPUs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:53 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:59 am 
sprtdrgnlvr wrote:
Ok, Just another point. i'm doing two different tests.
1st just a midi format player
the
2nd something that can handle .mp3 files

using sound effect triggers, that the gm can produce by just a button click or hotkey command.

I am seeing two entirely different line codes here, gave me a headache after awhile.

So i am trying this. using pure java..

That is sure to give you a headache :)
The standard java sound APIs are really not up to this, if the only thing playing a sound is the program in question (such as a game) they work ok, but if anything else is playing sounds it either wont play the sound, will stop the other program from playing a sound or result in some horrid combination of the sounds coming out, or it may just work. The result you get depends on the sound card you have and the operating system. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of people using MapTool will have another programing playing sounds -- such as voice chat -- so this would be a bit of a problem ;)

You might want to look at fmod there are java bindings for this library, and this gives you a lot more functionality than the standard java APIs as well.


sprtdrgnlvr wrote:

I will be trying to make the small applet that contains the ability to use both midi (for sound FX) and mp3 (for bg and battle music) set for streaming so one can sync it with your players....

A note Streaming music, java and dial-up connecting dislike each other.


This really doesn't have anything to do with Java :) Its just streaming musing and dial-up connections.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 12065
Location: Tampa, FL
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:03 pm 
Orchard wrote:
UT2k4 won big kudos in my book for using Ogg for it's audio, and the Bare Naked Ladies release some of their concerts in FLAC (you have to PAY for them still, but hey, it's worth it if you are a fan).

I'm not much for any music that's come out in the last 15 years. :roll: But releasing in FLAC is very cool as it's a completely lossless format! (FLAC = Free Lossless Audio Codec.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Kobold
 
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 9
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:06 pm 
I think a music tool could be interesting.

You could set thresholds that play a specific mood music or even a sound (a thousand children giggling that fades into one little girl crying then silence anyone?). Along with this you could allocate sounds to folders so a player can turn dramatic BGM off but still get the sound of a door opening down the hall, or just have all sounds off. Putting audio-calls into macros could be neat too. If they make their listen/perception check only they hear the door (and get a message to, obviously). Heh, freaking one player out with creepy sounds while the rest do not hear a thing...LoL!!

Long and short--an integrated sound tool with basic audio functions (loop sound, in program volume control, etc.) and the ability to macro sounds to functions. I use a Sword attack! You hit the monsters armor! *Clang!*. Or just have some nice instrumentals keyed to certain areas...then BOSS BATTLE MUSIC *starts headbanging*

[\rant]


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Dragon
 
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 417
 Post subject: Re: Music Tool or does anyone know of any programs out there?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:23 am 
FYI,

there are a couple tools that you may find of interest for adding sound effects to your games (both of them are fairly cheap shareware with trial versions so you can see what you pay for ahead of time):

-- Scramby: includes voice modulator with ability to create your voices, sound effect player (with hotkey support) and sound loop player (neat for weather, environement loops etc). File support is .wav and .mp3, which is good enough for me. The app adds a service and two virtual sound devices, so that it will insert itself between your microphone and your speakers. This way it will automatically mux your voice with its output to go into your voice communication system flawlessly (it worked just fine for me with: teamspeak, ventrilo, Oovoo, ItableTop, skype). The interface is compact (maybe too much if you have a lot of files) and it's really easy to use once setup correctly. You can add your own sounds by moving your files into the apps sound subfolders.

http://www.tunebite.com-http.com/scramby.html

-- Virtual Audio Cable: for people having trouble muxing sounds from/into different apps, this shareware allows to create virtual sound devices ("audio cables"), that will then plug into your various outputs (microphone, speakers, apps). It fills in the lack of flexibility of Windows XP and Vista audio systems. So for exemple your could use VAC to mix the output of Winamp, Mixere, WMP, your microphone, and output the result into both your headset, your speaker and you audio communication app. It's a bit hard to setup at first, but works well.

http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html

Hope this helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 243 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:14 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest





Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Style based on Andreas08 by Andreas Viklund

Style by Elizabeth Shulman