Some ideas for the drawing tools

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mosat
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Some ideas for the drawing tools

Post by mosat »

I found myself somewhat puzzled by the configuration of the drawing tools, it was difficult to see when the strokes and fills were enabled and every so often I would erase when I meant to draw.

I can see no difference in the squares that display the stroke and fill color, you should take a page from Adobe, they use a hollow box to indicate stroke color and a solid box for fill. My next concern is that it is difficult to tell when they are enabled, I figured out that the button lightens when it's disabled but thats difficult for the eye to see at a glance, I suggest the universal red slash through it if it is disabled. I also suggest that if you click the button to disable one and the other one is already disabled then it should automaticcally enable the other one, there is no reason (that I can think of) for them both to be disabled at the same time. To illustrate:

Image

Now about the erace function, it's my personal preference that this should be a separate tool, I just think it's confusing to have it be an aspect of the draw tools and I think it is confusing. i realize this would mean you would need two versions, one for drawings and one for FOW but I think it would be clearer in the end.
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trevor
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Post by trevor »

Thanks for the thoughts mosat, I'm all over making the paint chooser more user friendly.

The disabled look of the buttons is pretty horrid. It's the fault of the Look and Feel we are using (the skin for java Swing), I have an idea though.
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mosat
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Post by mosat »

Cool beans trevor. You stated in another thread that your goal is to not overcomplicate things and keep it accessible to new and inexperienced users. I totally agree and I'll keep that in mind when making suggestions.
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
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Post by dorpond »

Mosat, your solution was spot on for making it easier without having to change the buttons around. I thought it was a good idea!

Good suggestion!

If I know Trevor though, he is revamping :)

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Post by Phergus »

mosat wrote:I found myself somewhat puzzled by the configuration of the drawing tools, it was difficult to see when the strokes and fills were enabled and every so often I would erase when I meant to draw.
I actually don't have a problem with being able to tell if the strokes and fills are enabled from looking at the buttons but remembering which mode I'm in when I go to draw is another matter. At that point I'm typically not looking at the draw tool palette. I'm looking at the map and the mouse pointer.

Perhaps the mouse pointer should give feedback about what mode you are in like in GIMP. When doing erase the mouse pointer has a little eraser attached. When in pencil draw mode it has a little pencil attached. And so on.

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Post by trevor »

Phergus wrote: Perhaps the mouse pointer should give feedback about what mode you are in like in GIMP. When doing erase the mouse pointer has a little eraser attached. When in pencil draw mode it has a little pencil attached. And so on.
Yes. This is the plan, we've even got some pointers to use. There's a tracker for it. Just need to get to it :P
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Post by mosat »

I've been thinking about the eraser and how to make it's use more clear. The main problem I see is that it's buried on the paint pallet, it should be accessable from the tool bar. Case it point: if you are drawing and switch to erase and then go to the FOW you are still in erase mode, once you realize this you have to go back to the draw tool so you can toggle the eraser.

Here's my suggestion: Each of the five main curser tools has a subselection of tools which effect how it works and all of them have a box around them when they are active which clearly shows which one the user is currently using. Four of these tools are draw tools of some sort, for each of the draw tools add an eraser to it's group of subselection which can be activated indeppendantly of the other subselections. So if you have the draw tool activated with the solid box selected you can also activate the eraser and you will be erasing with a solid box. If you combine that with an eraser cursor I think it will be very clear what you are doing.

Some further refinements: Each tool should remember which mode it is in just like it remembers which subselection is active, so if you are erasing with the draw tool you can switch to FOW, do some drawing, and when you switch back to Drawing you are still in erase mode.

A hot key to toggle erase mode on and off would be a nice touch for power users (like me :-), heck, that might already exist and I'm just unaware of it).


I just thought about this, the snap to grid button has the same flaw as the eraser, it's on the paint pallet but effects all the draw tools. It could also do with the same treatment. You could put a aseparator line between those to tools and the other subselections so the user knows there is a slightly different function being represented.
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Post by Phergus »

Just FYI holding down Ctrl while drawing snaps to grid and holding down shift toggles Erase mode.

But I agree that each tool should remember its own state. It is annoying when you turn on erase in drawing and the switch to FoW without turning it off first.

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Post by trevor »

Thanks for the ideas mosat !

Having each tool remember the erase and snap state has a tracker already, so watch for it soon.

moving snap and erase up to the toolbar is definitely an option, and may provide a little more room to put color and texture selection enhancements.

We can try it out and see how it works, revert if we don't like it. I'll put in a tracker.
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Post by mosat »

Thanks Phergus, I figured there already was something like that in place, I just hadn't gone to look for it. I've actually been holding back on getting to know the program really well, as a new user I've been trying to get my impressions posted and hopefully that point of view will be helpful. Once I know the program well that perspective is shot :)
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~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru

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Post by trevor »

mosat wrote:'ve been trying to get my impressions posted
Much appreciated !
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Post by mosat »

trevor wrote:moving snap and erase up to the toolbar is definitely an option, and may provide a little more room to put color and texture selection enhancements.
Awesome! here's a FREQ for something that can go in the space the erase and snap to button will vacate: some way to set the stroke width. Can you change that now, if so I could not find where.
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

mosat wrote:
trevor wrote:moving snap and erase up to the toolbar is definitely an option, and may provide a little more room to put color and texture selection enhancements.
Awesome! here's a FREQ for something that can go in the space the erase and snap to button will vacate: some way to set the stroke width. Can you chang that now, if so I could not find where.
You used to be able to, until I broke it with the new toolbar layout. I was going to put it on the paint chooser, but you've got me thinking that it would be in the same class as the snap and erase, and should be up on the toolbar and be tool specific ?
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Post by mosat »

trevor wrote:
mosat wrote:Awesome! here's a FREQ for something that can go in the space the erase and snap to button will vacate: some way to set the stroke width. Can you chang that now, if so I could not find where.
You used to be able to, until I broke it with the new toolbar layout. I was going to put it on the paint chooser, but you've got me thinking that it would be in the same class as the snap and erase, and should be up on the toolbar and be tool specific ?
There are a few things which are relevant to all the drawing tools: Stroke width, stroke active/deactivated fill active/deactivated. The only things which are drawing only are color and opacity.

You've got two options: you can move those options to the toolbar or you could activate a palette specific to each tool. My impression is that these items work well on a palette and moving them to the tool bar would be crowding it a bit. You should also consider what other controls you may put on the pallet in the future.

I like the idea of a tool specific pallet, perhaps you could allow the user to set their own choice of color for FOW and topography, I know this won't effect the Player view but it might be a nice touch
~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru

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Post by trevor »

I'll put the stroke size on the chooser. I'll try to get that in for the next build.

Thanks for the ideas ! Keep 'em coming :)
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