Hover Notes: Discussion

[dorpond]

Really, I think all it needs is a few options, these are what I would recommend:

Location: 1. Bottom Corner, 2. Bubble next to and with pointer to stamp

I could see for those things with small notes, having them not directly at the mouse would be a pain and easy to miss them

For many of my notes, however, I copy and paste sections of the SRD into... making them huge, and having them come from the bottom of the screen is very nice.

Reveal: 1. On hover, 2. On Click

I LOVE the eye curser idea, definitely, for sure, must have!

An icon: on/off

On many of my non-mt maps, alot of the details are already in the map... and I have to put info stamps by them, or have one global info marker that describes everything in the room. However, when I add actual objects to the map, I can put the info right in the stamp. The problem now is, with a map full off stuff, I would have no idea to look for those one or to added objects. Thus, the obtion to have a little info marker in one of the corners of the stamp would be nice.

I like all of these ideas.

How about this as an idea to incorporate it?



Reveal options would be:
Off (maybe people don't want it to reveal)
Hover (as it is now)
Cursor (cursor turns into eye)

Location options would be:
Bottom (the note appears at the bottom of the map as they do now)
Object (the note appears at the object)

The check box to display an information icon is either on or off. Checked will display a nice Information Icon on the object at all times; Unchecked won't show any information icon.

Thoughts?

[trevor]

I think they should be global preferences. I don't think you'll want to have to do this for every single stamp. It'll get very repetitive.

I can appreciate the interest in having an info marker, but I don't think it'll work very well. In my testing, which had an info marker, it was often not clear with the info marker was for. Think of the case of the doors. Currently to make them spin correctly (which will be fixed in 1.3) you have to make the bounding box of the image much bigger than the actual stamp. Which means that when you put the info marker on it, most likely the top left corner of the bounding box, all the sudden you have a "i" indicator floating in the middle of the room instead of on the door. Then when you have lots of indicators all in a small area, it's gets very cluttered.

Instead, I propose that it's the wrong approach. Instead, drop down one of Dorpond's "i" indicators and add the information to that directly. You'll have more control over its visibility (just show/hide the token) and it will always be located exactly where you want it.

[dorpond]

I think they should be global preferences. I don't think you'll want to have to do this for every single stamp. It'll get very repetitive.

I fail to see the repetition - we are already in all of those stamps typing in the notes. Remember, we will be doing this when map building - when creating the campaigns.

We could specify the defaults of those two fields globally in Prefs.

I agree with the Information Icon though because you are correct, some stamps are not perfectly shaped and the information Icon could appear nowhere near the actual image (like in the door example).

[dorpond]

That means a lot of clicking to make things visible, not to mention the pain the GM has in trying to keep track of which ones are visible or not "Oh, you can't see that one ? hold on .... click click click click ... Ok try now".

I see your logic when it comes to turning them on and off and I can see a potential issues with that like you said. I think if we didn't want to see them anymore, we can just change them from Hover to Cursor. I know as a GM, I might not want my GM notes to hover anymore after the fact, especially after the puzzle has been completed and/or all checks have been rolled.

[dorpond]

How about this revision:


Reveal options would be:
Hover (as it is now)
Cursor (cursor turns into eye)

Location options would be:
Bottom (the note appears at the bottom of the map as they do now)
Object (the note appears at the object)

Global Preferences: We can specify what we want those two fields to default as.

(I am totally cool with whatever we end up with. I just thought that by having options, Maptool is more open minded to everyone)

[galneweinhaw]

"I can also see having a keystroke that highlights all "hot spots" on the screen. "

I think something like this would replace the need for an indicator. I like it!

[dorpond]

If people really want it to pop up next to the stamp, we could easily put in galneweinhaw's option, it would take about 2 lines of code to switch between the corner and next to the stamp.

If I have to pick, I vote that we keep the notes on the bottom - away from the action. I played around with them like that when they were at the object and in certain cases, it was difficult manuevering certain things when the Hover window was in the way.

[dorpond]

I guess I see hovers, information Icons, and such in a much larger fashion.

I see having hundreds of campaign files in the gallery that the community has created. I see many users downloading these campaigns and hoping to use those campaigns easily. I see a complate turn key solution. I can also see someone buying professional campaign files where they load it up and they have everything they need right there.

I see:

1. A hover at the start of the campaign file. This hover is always on. It is a welcome sign for all connected players or it is a detailed description of the campaign they are about to play. When the player logs in, they see this Hover. This hover looks pretty because it is HTML. It looks classy.
(What I did as a GM to produce this: I simply put an information Icon on the map, entered all the HTML information for the players and stated that the Reveal is Always On)

2. I see the players walking into the garden. They see beautiful a beautiful scene of flowers and rock gardens - even a passing stream that flows through the garden where ducks and other critters swim and enjoy the day. There are some hidden stuff in this garden, a small key lies in the bottom of the water fountain, a small box is under the bush and a note is crumpled up at the table overlooking the waterfall. In this situation, I wouldn't want automatic hovers. Instead, I would want the player to move their mouse around and hope to notice that their cursor changes to an eye. It is a bit more mysterious in this manner.
(What I do as the GM: I simple put notes on all of those hidden items but specified that the Reveal is set to Cursor.)

3. The players see some doors leading from the garden to the house. The players move thier cursor to the door and a hover appears before them automatically "There is a window in the door and a well crafted door knob. There is a bell next to the door with a pull rope that you can pull to alert the home owner inside that you are here"
(What I do as the GM: I enter the note and state that Reveal is Hover)

4. The player takes a look at the Villiage map. The villiage map shows the whole layout of the town but they can also zoom in close at the street level when they walk around town. The player sees many street signs on the map and signs in front of buildings but because the player is not there, they has no idea what they say. The player leaves this garden and takes to the street. He walks two blocks to a road sign. Now, that the player is close to the road sign, he can read that it says "Hillview and Jerkens". The building at the street corner has a sign in front of it that says "General Store".
(What I do as the GM: The street sign has all the notes already entered. I just had the Reveal set to Off so they wouldn't show. When the player was close enough, I simply changed Reveal setting to Hover and Location to be Object because I want that information to be right where the sign is. I did the same to the General Store sign. I will leave both of these signs revealed since the player already took note of this area of town)

5. The player takes a walk down Jerkens where he meets up with a rough house named RPTroll. RPTroll to the player looks like a rough and tough Troll. There are no hovers or anything to the player. As the GM, there is a hover at the bottom of the screen with all over RPTrolls stats.
(As a GM I would put RPTrolls stats in the GM section and set Reveal to be Hover and Location to be Bottom so I can see it during the confrontation)

In all honesty, I would definately use all the methods when creating campaigns. This doesn't have to happen now or even for 1.2 but I would like to see a much more robust method down the road.

[galneweinhaw]

I see:

Now that I can see what you see.... I like what I see!

[ego093]

Dorpond - it seems to me that what you're describing is a video game. If an object is hidden, I don't need the players to mouse over objects to find things - I need them to do a search or spot roll. When it comes to descriptions of objects in the game world, I want them to listen and ask questions - not just read a text box and move on.

That said - I do use Snikle-style push-pins to store encounter and location information, so the GM pop-ups are wonderful just as they are. I also agree with Trevor that pop-ups should be a preference rather than a per-item thing. A GM should be able to quickly toggle pop-ups, though.

[dorpond]

Dorpond - it seems to me that what you're describing is a video game. If an object is hidden, I don't need the players to mouse over objects to find things - I need them to do a search or spot roll. When it comes to descriptions of objects in the game world, I want them to listen and ask questions - not just read a text box and move on.

What I am describing is a System Agnostic Maptool for all types of gaming styles. I personally play D&D with spots and listens and I too will hide items and reveal them when they are found. I was simply painting the picture for all kinds of gaming styles and systems. The cool thing about the system I am painting is that you can still use your method of gaming that you describe above. Implementing notes like like I describe will not interfer or force you to play a certain way.

[Phergus]

Amen Ego093. Not interested in turning it into a hover hunt for the players.

I don't want the player notes getting popped up at all. It's possible that I might want to make a player notes section accessible to the players but it would only be after I had already given the info to the players verbally.

I think a per stamp hover option is needed. My thinking is that I would use the hover popup sparingly and only to make sure that I don't forget an important detail such as a trap that will be there whether the players look for it or not. Info like the contents of a cabinet or state of decomposition of a body can be accessed when needed in the normal fashion.

Barring those capabilities I just need the ability to turn it off completely.

[trevor]

Keep in mind that if you put in a GM note and not a player note, then the players will not see the hover at all, or any indication that there should be.

[dorpond]

You have to keep in mind guys is that what I am suggesting allows you to have the freedom to do whatever you want with the hovers/notes. It is allowing you to turn off hovers, put hovers on some, replace hovers with an eye icon, etc. What I suggested isn't a method of forcing you guys to any one particular method but rather giving you the option to us Maptool any way you please.

As stated before though, I will be happy with whatever the majority rules (or Trevor decided on) - I just think that more options allow Maptool to please a much broader user base.

[Phergus]

Keep in mind that if you put in a GM note and not a player note, then the players will not see the hover at all, or any indication that there should be.

Well it is probably a bug or mistake but the Player clients show a little grey box down in the corner for any object that has GM notes which of course gives the players a big hint that there is something significant about that object.

And regarding Player Notes. I consider them to be something that is regarded as safe for the GM to read to the players and not something that is necessarily given to players. It allows the GM to separate the descriptive, mood-setting text from the rules derived specifics in the GM's Notes.

I don't see losing Player Notes in exchange for GM hovers as a win.