game breaking problem with "day" vision

Thoughts, Help, Feature Requests, Bug Reports, Developing code for...

Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei

Forum rules
PLEASE don't post images of your entire desktop, attach entire campaign files when only a single file is needed, or generally act in some other anti-social behavior. :)
User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

Heavy lag that makes things unworkable on my map...
I have considered the following:
Too many tokens
Too big token images (all are 200x200)
Too many "has sight" tokens
VBL
FoW

And dismissed them:
Token size and number has no effect in DM view
Only PC owned tokens have view (few exceptions)
VBL is nothing but polylines and vision is set to 500 ft
Not using FoW

What else could be causing this problem?
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

User avatar
JamzTheMan
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1872
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by JamzTheMan »

Lights, do you have any/many? And what version of MapTool? Are you running day or night vision? How about server options, Individual FoW?

I've made some improvements, especially with lights & FoW lately, try my fork and see if it's worse or better. http://maptool.nerps.net
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

No lights... Gave up on night for this map long ago (full capitol city in middle of civil war/siege/slave revolt... Too many places/tokens to even track lighting)
No FoW...
And my players have a very little drive space, so unless yours is cross compatible w/ the latest build that's out of the question...
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4736
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: FL

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by Full Bleed »

silbrulf wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:23 pm
Heavy lag that makes things unworkable on my map...
I have considered the following:
Too many tokens
Too big token images (all are 200x200)
This is relative. Relative to how much memory you're actually using and how much you've assigned to MT.

What memory settings are you using?
Too many "has sight" tokens
VBL
FoW
Too general a consideration without having specifics.
VBL is nothing but polylines and vision is set to 500 ft
Polyline VBL is the most processor intensive type of VBL to use. But, ultimately, it depends on how you're using it.

And, depending on the map, 500ft is a very long vision distance to calculate... particularly if the vision shape generated is complex (which a lot of chaotic polylines can easily be.)
What else could be causing this problem?
You're really going to need to share the campaign file. It's tough to understand the true dynamics without seeing them.
silbrulf wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:54 am
And my players have a very little drive space, so unless yours is cross compatible w/ the latest build that's out of the question...
This seems like a red flag. MT doesn't use much space. What memory settings are your players using... and how little drive space do they have?
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

User avatar
JamzTheMan
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1872
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by JamzTheMan »

Agree with Fullbleed, just to many open questions and a few red flags...

FYI: If you looked, yes, my fork is cross platform just as is the original version. It's about 200mb installed because it brings it's own JRE. That will be the same space as installing the original MT + Java JRE. Or you can use the stand alone JAR and launch it yourself, that's about 50mb.

But as FB said, if you are down to only have a few hundred MB of disk space left and worried about that, I dunno. Asset Cache usually ends up growing much larger than that...

If you have no FoW then why do you have VBL? Are you using 100mb+ images for maps or tokens or something? Without lights or FoW you really should be flying. Other than have a LOT of data on a token (like whole spell databases in JSON or something) you should be good. You can also try resetting FoW and see if that helps (if you had exisiting FoW, as it can "grow" over time) but I doubt that is the issue. Maybe this is just your PC specs, share those as well...
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by Phergus »

JamzTheMan wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:10 am
If you have no FoW then why do you have VBL?
Because it is a daytime map and the area is known? As you well know, the VBL is to control who can see what. I use maps with VBL and no FoW all the time. Not all action takes place in a dungeon.

But, yeah, there are a number of red flags and very few specifics. Need the campaign file or at least the map.

As he says it is a full capitol city which would be a big map at 5'/grid. I imagine the VBL is just way too complex.

User avatar
JamzTheMan
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1872
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by JamzTheMan »

Phergus wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:28 am
JamzTheMan wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:10 am
If you have no FoW then why do you have VBL?
Because it is a daytime map and the area is known? As you well know, the VBL is to control who can see what. I use maps with VBL and no FoW all the time. Not all action takes place in a dungeon.

But, yeah, there are a number of red flags and very few specifics. Need the campaign file or at least the map.

As he says it is a full capitol city which would be a big map at 5'/grid. I imagine the VBL is just way too complex.
Ok, so when I saw no FoW, I mean, Menu -> Map - Fog-of-War is unchecked... If you have that unchecked and Day vision checked, you are seeing the whole map, regardless of VBL, which is why I asked. It still has to calculate though (as you can see vision lines when hovering).
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

The memory settings are 2595 (3/4 of my lowest inactive memory with nothing running)/16/2

Adv tab: gen debug and macro handling

Direct3d pipeline disabled (sped up my connection to my player for some reason. His idea)

85 tokens using normal sight
No light sources

Map set to 9px per 40 ft space
And VBL is pretty "complicated", city and district walls have VBL buildings do not (sight becomes area of influence/operations)

Fog is off
I'm not even TOUCHING light source on the map... When day started lagging I knew night would take a crap.

Ill upload map if someone can point me to a fileshare. Don't have db and can't up the campaign (phone is hotspot and past my data cap)

Edit: just noticed something. In Performance data token and tokenlist are the biggest drags at 2000ms and higher. My library includes folders with large images that haven't become tokens yet (handouts and portraits that haven't made it in yet). But the tokens that I use and have made it onto the map are all 200x200 and only a few break 100kb.
Last edited by silbrulf on Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

I know I'm being a bit difficult and I don't mean to be... I'm just limited on my web access atm. I CAN make do with the map on no vision setting, but I'm trying to figure it out for future maps. Not the last large-scale fight the players will lead
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

Update:
For a heluvit test... Running the map in a second instance as a player has less of a lag issue than it did running it in either player view or when it was running on the second machine. Not sure if that tells you anything. It still drags, but not as much.
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by Phergus »

We still need some info like which build of MapTool and what version of Java. What OS would be nice as well.

From what you've described it doesn't sound like your map should be that much of a challenge. 85 tokens isn't a problem. With VBL just on the major walls of the city that shouldn't be the issue. I believe you can just attach a .cmpgn or .rpmap file to a post as long as they aren't too big. If nothing else, give us a screenshot of the map with the VBL layer active.
silbrulf wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:35 pm
In Performance data, token and tokenlist are the biggest drags at 2000ms and higher.
That's bad. Really, really bad. What do you see if you place one of the tokens on an empty map and then drag it around?
silbrulf wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:35 pm
My library includes folders with large images that haven't become tokens yet (handouts and portraits that haven't made it in yet).
Those don't impact performance except when browsing the library and MT is generating thumbnails.
silbrulf wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:35 pm
But the tokens that I use and have made it onto the map are all 200x200 and only a few break 100kb.
Those will create very little load as far as the image size is concerned.

Do you have a large number of macros on each token?

Do you have a lot of data stored in the properties of each token?

If you export one of the tokens to an .rptok file, what is the file size?

Have these tokens been used before on maps when Individual FoW was enabled?

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

Rpmap is 5,146kb
On any other map token and tokenlist is about 16ms
Maptool is 1.4.1.8
Win10 (10.5? All current updates)
Acer aspire es 15 (not sure the specific info you need: 4gb ddr3 L memory, AMD dual-core e1-6010 (1.35ghz), Radeon r2 graphics)
Map is too big it appears...
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

Sorry for poor quality. This is a large map, 20px squares here. 40ft per, and 1mi wide city
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by Phergus »

Any luck getting that map uploaded?

The map image itself should be well within the capabilities of your PC.

User avatar
silbrulf
Cave Troll
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:54 am

Re: game breaking problem with "day" vision

Post by silbrulf »

Sorry... I will have to work on that. I thought it had uploaded the screenshot. But it appears it didn't. I have two more things to try. Give me about an hour. Getting onto a faster hotspot might do it.

Is drive ok for an upload of my rpmap? I might be able to do that from my phone.
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.

Post Reply

Return to “MapTool”