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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:06 pm 
Well, the build starts this weekend...I'll let y'all know how it turns out...including pictures of an LCD on fire if that where this leads to!


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 11
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:22 pm 
I have been using a 40" Toshiba LCD TV in a custom gaming table I built for it for about 6 months now with my gaming group. We only play once a month, but we go for 12 hours most of the time. We just got done though with a 3 day/night gamefest that really put the table to the test. Here is what I have found by trial and error.

First, I wouldn't go bigger then a 40" LCD if possible. The 1920 by 1080 Rez from a 1080p hd TV really starts to get stretched over too much of an area then IMHO and the maps and figures start to not look as good.

Second, you are going to need to cool the TV with fans from the bottom or sides. This is a must. The heat from the TV is going to try to rise straight through the LCD and the TV will get quite hot, much hotter then when it is standing upright with tons of air moving around it. I recommend using 120 mm computer fans and buying a 12v power support to run them. You can get one for 10 bucks that just supplies a single 4 pin moles connector and daisy chain your fans on it. I recommend keeping the fan selection to the low rpm models, 1200 to 1300 rpm if you can so they don't make to much noise and you don't freeze your package with all the air moving down under the table

Third, make sure you tv buying decision takes cooling into account the design of the back of the TV for ventilation. The best choice you could make would be an led edge lit LCD TV. These newer TV's produce much lower heat because they use much less juice to power them. My TV isn't led and I have had to user more fans to cool it. Either type of TV you pick, make sure it has some nice vent hole locations for cooling placement of your fans. I was at Costco the other day and they had a Vizio led 42" for 649.00 and a LG old style LCD with really nice vent spots on both side of the back for 549.00 which was a 42" again, so not sure how well a 42" will look compared to my 40" though.

Another thing you should do is place some small clear rubber bumber dots on the pexiglass facing down towards the LCD bezel so as to lift the plexiglass a tiny bit up off the bezel to allow hot air to escape from the LCD itself.

I almost forgot. To get the best viewing angle to use for this purpose on a TV, try to find out if the TV has an IPS panel. Those have much better viewing angles and will work better for this purpose. Best way it to just look at all the TV's in the store and decide for yourself which looks best from the sides and if possible the bottom by crouching down below it. Buying and extended warranty or getting the tv from Costco is the best bet as well. Walmart offers extended warranty's for very cheap on there TV's. I bought mine at BB and slapped a 4 year warranty on it as well.

Hope this got to you and your DM in time. And hope it helps. Enjoy the project and remember, cool the TV, or it will melt on you right in the middle of combat.


Ooooh and a shout out to Maptools and the Dev team for making this dream come true, and for free no less!


Last edited by Mahhand on Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 11
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:38 pm 
Here are some pics of my table, hope it helps you make a nice one.
Attachment:
File comment: table 1
Table 1.JPG
Table 1.JPG [ 193.07 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: table 2
Table 2.JPG
Table 2.JPG [ 218.53 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: table 3
Table 3.JPG
Table 3.JPG [ 213.42 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: table 4
Table 4.JPG
Table 4.JPG [ 219.37 KiB | Viewed 687 times ]


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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:51 am
Posts: 308
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:14 am 
That is epic. I can't help but wonder what Gygax and Arneson would think if they saw one of those.


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:13 pm 
Awesome Mahhand, thanks for all the tips and the screenshots!!! This looks almost exactly like what I'm envisioning for our build, nice to see the concept "in action" so to speak!


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:19 pm 
Mahhand, would you mind taking a photo from underneath? I'd like to see how you did your support of the TV


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 11
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:10 am 
I don't have the table at my house bro so I can't take a photo for you of the underside right now. This was my first build for this table idea so I went with both an apron all the way around the table to give it strength and to prevent it from warping. I also used the apron to attach the legs to the table so it would be sturdy. I then was overly concerned on the weight of the tv effecting the table so I built an inner square inside the apron to attach the tv support beams too. I would most likely try to combine the support beans to the outer apron next time so as to reduce weight of the table for my next build and skip the need for the inner square beams.


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:00 am 
I also did an apron (kind of heavy duty one with 2x4), again, worried about warping. My support beams are probably a little different, as I had to design it so that the TV could be dropped below the table, allowing the cut out to be put back in so the table could be used "normally".

I fired up the TV last night, everything worked great but yep, definite heat build up on the screen.

If you (or whoever has possession of the table) get a chance to take a pic of your fan setup under the table, I would really appreciate it. I know I need to do something with fans but I'm not sure how to arrange them, how many of them, how far from the TV, etc, etc. I realize this isn't an exact science but you're the only person I've seen so far who has done this.

Thanks!


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 11
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:50 pm 
Here is a good fan to use. they have others as well on the site. ball bearing or liquid bearing fans will last longer, but how often you really going to be running it always. cheap is my main concern.

http://www.svc.com/y720scb-12k1-gp.html

to power them here is what I use. http://www.svc.com/pa-ad-ul.html Cheap and easy to use, and has a long cord.

4 ping extender cables in different lengths if you need them to better Daisey chain the fans to each other http://www.svc.com/molex-power-adapter.html

The TV is going to put out heat on both sides of the back. find the vents that are there and use two sided Velcro to attach them when the tv is in place. I though cooling one side would work on mine because it is where the two largest cent locations were, that wasn't the case. I had to place two more fans on it, and use what vent holes i could find. Also having the Plexiglass top slightly raised with little clear rubber bumper dots is a must as it will allow a lot of hot air to escape from the lcd surface. I think 4 120 mm fans at about 1200 rpm should work for you, though that power supply handles 5 easy if you need a 5th one.

Where is the pic's of your table?


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:52 pm 
note if your lcd is out of warranty, I would look into cutting or drilling a nice vent hole right where it is hottest and put fans right where they needed to go if i was you.


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:12 pm 
Thanks for the tips Mahhand, I'll dig into it.

The pics, man, I'm almost ashamed to put them up after I saw how nice yours looks! I will post some when its done, although this table is probably just going to have the top painted black, rather than the nice wood finish you have on yours. Budget concerns!


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:16 pm 
Oh, and a quick question. Do all your fans point toward your TV or do you have one set of fans blowing on the TV and another "pulling" hot air away from it? Or is the cooling sufficient with everything just blowing into the TV's vents?


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:48 pm 
I have them all pointed up, bringing fresh air into the tv. Most of the hot air is expelled out the sides. And I am sure your table is gonna look great!


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Dragon
 
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 616
 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:52 pm 
Oooh, I think I misunderstood something from a previous description...

So your fans are attached directly to the back of the TV, over the vents, via the velcro tape? Am I correct?


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Kobold
 
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:06 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Project table question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:21 pm 
Yes you are correct. Find the vents, apply fans, problem fixed. Note a good way to find the heat areas is to just feel the back of the tv, but it is going to be on the two back sides, Ie left and right of center. One is the power module from the ac outlet, other is the video display circuits.


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