Maps in Maptool and Memory Sizes

[aku]

just out of curiosity, is there a reason you want a map of that size, at that type of scale?

[biodude]

The convenience of not having to switch maps when moving to different areas of a city?
I can see a map like this being quite immersive for players - they can practically explore it on their own, and you can run scenarios on a scale that would otherwise be intimidating in a paper-only setting, such as an epic chase scene through a city, pre-populated with peasants and other random encounters (stats stored on the tokens are readily available when the players encounter them, so the DM doesn't have to keep a stack of possible NPC stats ready and look them up when needed).

You would probably still want separate maps for "key indoor locations" (temples, halls, sewer dungeons, etc.), but I can see the appeal of being able to switch scales easily, something MapTools can handle fairly well.

I can also see getting lost fairly easily, too , which is why Phergus' suggestions for Wiki: goto() macros would be a great idea, and excellent examples of Campaign-specific macros that have nothing to do with a rules system, and everything to do with the specific campaign and map.

[heyes]

Originally this idea grew out of a suggestion that one of my players made. I had set up some maps for a few encounters, and one "overworld" map of the whole city that was draw with just painting tools. I found some city tokens and dropped a few for neighborhoods or special locations that had encountered.

Well one of my players wanted to know more about what kind of buildings and structures lay around the various encounter spots, and I get the feeling she had the impression that I had such maps.

From this point I thought I'd make a mid-scale map so that I could just show them the lay of the land. I did this using one building object that I manipulated in size and shape to fill in the neighborhood, and I got a little carried away and laid out a zoning map for the 1 square mile map.

So, again, with a little too much time on my hands, I had to redesign a location in the center of this map to reflect some in game changes. (The NPC serving as something of a commanding officer for the players was maximizing the arcane properties of the location). Then I started mapping out to scale the buildings nearby, and just wondered how far out I can go.

My game is a city-based adventuring environment, in a very large but simple city that has long been in ruins. One of the central activities of the game is that the new ruling body is trying to clear out dissidents and to spread influence to parts of the city still in open rebellion, explore uninhabited parts of the city, and all the natural developments that come therefrom. In particular the players are really enjoying seeing the how results of their actions play out in city life, and one way to express is by leaving traces of their actions on the maps to which they will return time and time again. IF a shop gets burned down, what happens in the weeks that pass? If the players slay some crazy sewer monster, they might get a plaque or a statue. If the players accidently let loose a bunch of brain-munching zombie cats from a sealed vault, a section of town might empty out. And so on... The mapping is one way to support that idea.

So while I wouldn't really think of designing the whole city on this scale, There is some use in designing the neighborhoods (which I have arbitrarily decided are around one square mile in size...) as I need them after this fashion.

[heyes]

There really isn't anything more specific to say. It all depends.

I don't think anyone is developing metrics on how any of the many factors that might affect your performance do affect your performance.

If you are going to make a really big map, make a bunch of macros that use /goto to move you about quickly. Or more advanced macros that let people pick a location to go to it.

I just didn't know if some of that stuff was more obvious to the programming types or not... Oh well. With the "neighborhood" sized maps I'm not too worried about people getting lost (as we play face-to-face currently), but I will definitely have to consider that if we start getting bigger maps. Thanks for that suggestion.

[Forgarn]

I am working on the "P1 King of the Trollhaunt Warren" adventure. The initial encounter was fine (was launching MT with 256M of RAM). However, when I started working on the warren itself, I was pretty much forced to go to 512M when I started MT. Now every time I load this campaign, it hovers around 350MB of memory usage. What can I do to lower this? I have been copying the tokens that I use and have tried other items listed in the tutorials, but nothing seems to work. I still have all the raid encounters as well as the Stone Cauldron encounters to map.

Any ideas?

[Azhrei]

Now every time I load this campaign, it hovers around 350MB of memory usage. What can I do to lower this? I have been copying the tokens that I use and have tried other items listed in the tutorials, but nothing seems to work.

Well, if you've tried everything in the tutorials, then there's not much else to add.

Memory usage in MapTool is directly related to the in-memory size of images, so reducing the image resolution is a good first step. Reducing the color palette likely won't help any because the image will be converted to whatever bit depth is required by the display hardware.

However, I don't consider 350MB to be that large. (I used to run with 512MB for MT but have recently bumped it to 768MB.) Since the memory usage is mostly per-map, you might be able to gain some memory back by splitting a single map into two pieces, but then it's a pain moving back and forth between maps... (I say "mostly per-map" because there is some overhead data that has to stay in memory, even if the images themselves don't.)

[Forgarn]

Got it...that would be why the huge troll warren in King (a single map) sucks the resources down so much. By the way I am tracing the maps from the books. The images would be to large any other way. Would that be a problem?

[aku]

i think it can be, for some reason, i seem to remember so research that indicated maps made within maptool with smaller images and parts, was less resource intensive than one large image made in another program

[lonewolf147]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I have a relevant question about this. I'm currently importing a massive dungeon. Anyone heard of Rappan Athuk? Some of the map levels are huge (the Great Cavern is a two page map with each square representing 300'!!)

What I've ended up doing is using each PDF map level as the background map image when created a new map in MT. Then I'm drawing in the walls, and features of the map, adding objects and such. Yes, my campaign file is huge (113MB) and the memory requirements on my machine are pretty intense. I generally have to start with 1540MB RAM to get all the levels to load.

I saw in this thread about removing the background map. How exactly do I do this? I've gone into Edit Map and I can see where to change the background map, but I can only change it, not remove it.

If I have to just find some small blank tile to use that is of smaller size than the PDF's I'm using, so be it. But I was hoping to just remove them entirely.

Thoughts and ideas??

[aliasmask]

Probably the only way to remove it is manually with in the campaign file. I did a little experimentation and found removing the <mapAsset>...</mapAsset> tag and the <entry>...</entry> under <assetMap> that contains the word mapAsset will do the trick.

The campaign file is a zip file, just add .zip to the end and then open up. The file I'm speak of modifying is content.xml. The above actions worked for me.

This is what I removed in my experiment:

Code: Select all

          <mapAsset>
            <id>dd540fbd6980a85be603027c12104dd2</id>
          </mapAsset>

Code: Select all

    <entry>
      <net.rptools.lib.MD5Key reference="../../../campaign/zones/entry/net.rptools.maptool.model.Zone/mapAsset"/>
      <null/>
    </entry>

Note: Under <assetMap>, there should be at least 1 other entry for the background image.

[lonewolf147]

Excellent! That works Thanks, now I've drastically reduced the size (19 levels at about 5mb a background image...)

[Ithaca]

Sorry if this answer appears in another location.

I am trying to import a TOEE map, it is a 9.62 MB jpeg, into maptool. I get a memory error then a red X. I have tried to locate a memory allocation function in maptool but so far am too green to figure it out.

How can I get that map imported?

Thanks

[jep5156]

Semi new to MapTool. Used it briefly about a year ago and loved it. Here's my dilemma: I want to make a zoomable map of an entire Shire roughly 100 by 80 miles. I'd like to zoom into any part of the map for an encounter if necessary. I've seen screen casts of maps done on a planetary scale so I'm pretty sure it's possible. I have no idea how to begin tackling this. I have an image to import, but I'm not sure if that's a good way to go.

[lonewolf147]

Sorry if this answer appears in another location.

I am trying to import a TOEE map, it is a 9.62 MB jpeg, into maptool. I get a memory error then a red X. I have tried to locate a memory allocation function in maptool but so far am too green to figure it out.

How can I get that map imported?

Thanks

Sorry this is a late reply to you Ithaca, I see no one else has and I just now came across your post.

With my own massive maps, I've had to keep rescaling and reducing image quality in an image editor (photoshop or the like) until I had a file small enough that MT would process and display it. That's really going to be your best bet.

What I would do is create a new map and use my image as the background for that map. Then I would redraw the map using tiles and textures on the background level. Once I was done, in order to save memory in both the campaign files size and in MT, I would delete the background image I started with. That process is a much more complicated thing though. I've been meaning to post some step-by-step instructions that I use frequently when I do it. Since you've reminded me, I'll post them now.

Code: Select all

How to remove background images from an RPTools map.

1. BACK UP YOUR CAMPAIGN FILE!

2. Change the campaign extension from .cmpgn to .zip

3. Unzip the file to it's own directory

4. Go into the Assets folder. Find the background image and copy the file name (not the extension). Delete image file.

5. Back up one directory and open the content.xml file for editing. Use Notepad or your xml editor of choice.

6. Do a search for the file name.

7. Delete the section the name comes in from <mapAsset> <id>??????????????</id> </mapAsset>

8. Save file and add it back to the campaign zip file.

9. rename zip back to cmpgn.

10. Run maptools and open the campaign.  YOU WILL GET AN ERROR, keep it open, you need info off it.

11. Under the Debugging Info, you want to look at the first line labeled Reference and note this info down (probably in a text file)

12. Go back to the xml file you were working on and open it to edit it again.  Do a search for this string. It should be near the very end of the file.  DO NOT SEARCH FOR THE STRING WITH 'GUID' at the end.

13. Delete the section <entry> <netnet.rptools.lib.MD5Key reference="../../../campaign/zones/entry???/net.rptools.maptool.model.Zone/mapAsset"/>
 <null/> </entry>

14. Resave file.  Zip the two files and the assets directory.  Change .zip back to .cmpgn and move to your campaign directory.

15. Run Maptools. Be Happy :)

[lonewolf147]

Semi new to MapTool. Used it briefly about a year ago and loved it. Here's my dilemma: I want to make a zoomable map of an entire Shire roughly 100 by 80 miles. I'd like to zoom into any part of the map for an encounter if necessary. I've seen screen casts of maps done on a planetary scale so I'm pretty sure it's possible. I have no idea how to begin tackling this. I have an image to import, but I'm not sure if that's a good way to go.

Sorry Jep, I'm not able to give you any advice on what you want to do. I'm actually interested in finding out the same thing for some maps I have planned. I'm only replying to you so that you don't feel I was ignoring you when I just replied to Ithaca.