Launched MT will not autolog chat [resolved]
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- Cave Troll
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Launched MT will not autolog chat [resolved]
So, I rely -heavily- on Maptools autologging feature for chatlogs. I've got hundreds of them by now, all of them with the default naming scheme of having full dates and start times on them, all sorted into subfolders by campaign. My autologging interval is usually every 3 minutes, so whenever a game is over and server is disconnected, I leave my MT up for a few minutes while I do other things before shutting it off, always expecting it will do its job. I've come to rely on it so much that I have, several times, forgotten it's even possible to manually save a chatlog.
Well, as discovered in my previous request for help thread, it was determined that I've actually been booting MT by clicking the .jar directly, rather than using the launcher. I still keep hitting the direct .jar by habit, but am trying to use the launcher more often, too.
Except there's a problem that I've just discovered: If I boot up MT using the launcher, the autolog-chat feature does not activate. Just...does not do its job. No new chatlogs in the autosave folder.
It took me three instances of using MT through the launcher to realize this, have already lost one log of an important game because of it. I've tried changing the time interval between autolog chatsaves, but that hasn't worked either. So...what the hell is going on?
For anyone not bothering to click on the link to my previous thread;
-I am using MT 1.3b91
-I am on Windows 7 OS
EDIT: It was a configuration error.
Well, as discovered in my previous request for help thread, it was determined that I've actually been booting MT by clicking the .jar directly, rather than using the launcher. I still keep hitting the direct .jar by habit, but am trying to use the launcher more often, too.
Except there's a problem that I've just discovered: If I boot up MT using the launcher, the autolog-chat feature does not activate. Just...does not do its job. No new chatlogs in the autosave folder.
It took me three instances of using MT through the launcher to realize this, have already lost one log of an important game because of it. I've tried changing the time interval between autolog chatsaves, but that hasn't worked either. So...what the hell is going on?
For anyone not bothering to click on the link to my previous thread;
-I am using MT 1.3b91
-I am on Windows 7 OS
EDIT: It was a configuration error.
Last edited by Glitch(TMG) on Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I am very far from an expert, but the launcher sets a data directory. Is it possible that's different from where you usually save stuff? Maybe the logs are there, but you don't know where?
In playing with .b91, it looks like if you launch MT with the launcher, the autosave chat logs go to c:\users\username\.maptool\autosave (where username is your user account name). I can't tell where it saves to when you launch the .jar directly, but it's apparently not there.
In playing with .b91, it looks like if you launch MT with the launcher, the autosave chat logs go to c:\users\username\.maptool\autosave (where username is your user account name). I can't tell where it saves to when you launch the .jar directly, but it's apparently not there.
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- Cave Troll
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
Er...no, that's actually exactly where MT even without the launcher sends the autosaved logs. Looking at the filepath of where my autosaved logs are now, and that's exactly it. I even have a shortcut on my desktop going to that exact folder so I can access them easily.taustinoc wrote:I am very far from an expert, but the launcher sets a data directory. Is it possible that's different from where you usually save stuff? Maybe the logs are there, but you don't know where?
In playing with .b91, it looks like if you launch MT with the launcher, the autosave chat logs go to c:\users\username\.maptool\autosave (where username is your user account name). I can't tell where it saves to when you launch the .jar directly, but it's apparently not there.
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- Cave Troll
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
Uh...this issue is still unresolved for me...can anyone help?
- Full Bleed
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I don't use this feature... but I wonder if you've been using a "bug" as a feature because you've been loading MT the wrong way.Glitch(TMG) wrote:Uh...this issue is still unresolved for me...can anyone help?
Currently, the autosave folder is flushed when you close Maptool properly. So it would not surprise me if it is supposed to flush the "autosave" chatlog that's saved there as well. It's really there to recover campaigns from an unexpected crash... not to be used as auto-backups.
In short: if the chatlog is saving and not flushing when you exit MT when you run with just the core jar file, it's probably *not* supposed to be doing that.
That said, it's possible that the bug is the other way around and the autosave shouldn't be flushing when closing MT when you run it "properly" through a launcher or bat. Currently I don't feel like MT's "Autosave" is really an autosave at all. I've lobbied for changing the name or functionality several times in the past. As currently implemented, MT's autosave is really only "crash recovery". This misleads users all the time. I think it used to keep up to 10 saves... but that changed some time ago (maybe when the backup subfolder/functionality was added)... and now it flushes on close and I only get a single, proper, campaign backup in my backup directory. I simply don't trust MT's features in this regard and I save and rename my campaigns any time I edit the framework, at the start of a new session, and at the end of a session. My campaign folder from a game that's been running since 2013 is over 11 gigs as a result.
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
You...appear to be confusing and conflating two very different (albeit admittedly similarly named) features.Full Bleed wrote:I don't use this feature... but I wonder if you've been using a "bug" as a feature because you've been loading MT the wrong way.Glitch(TMG) wrote:Uh...this issue is still unresolved for me...can anyone help?
Currently, the autosave folder is flushed when you close Maptool properly. So it would not surprise me if it is supposed to flush the "autosave" chatlog that's saved there as well. It's really there to recover campaigns from an unexpected crash... not to be used as auto-backups.
In short: if the chatlog is saving and not flushing when you exit MT when you run with just the core jar file, it's probably *not* supposed to be doing that.
That said, it's possible that the bug is the other way around and the autosave shouldn't be flushing when closing MT when you run it "properly" through a launcher or bat. Currently I don't feel like MT's "Autosave" is really an autosave at all. I've lobbied for changing the name or functionality several times in the past. As currently implemented, MT's autosave is really only "crash recovery". This misleads users all the time. I think it used to keep up to 10 saves... but that changed some time ago (maybe when the backup subfolder/functionality was added)... and now it flushes on close and I only get a single, proper, campaign backup in my backup directory. I simply don't trust MT's features in this regard and I save and rename my campaigns any time I edit the framework, at the start of a new session, and at the end of a session. My campaign folder from a game that's been running since 2013 is over 11 gigs as a result.
There is the campaign autosaver, which, as you say, is actually really only for crash recovery. What that does is create a temporary save file of your campaign every few minutes that you specify, and when you properly close out Maptool, this file is erased, but if Maptool is force-shutdowned or crashes, then the file remains for campaign recovery.
I am not talking about this at all.
I am talking about the chatlogger, that creates an HTML file with a log of your chatbox every few minutes you specify. This HTML file is not wiped out upon closing down MapTool.
As for why you seem to be confusing them, well, as I said, they are far too similarly named and not distinguished well:
For additional "confusion", yes, both of these features do dump into the same folder; c:\users\username\.maptool\autosave
I agree these features need to be renamed and distinguished better, incidentally.
I see the campaign crash recovery file every time I open the autosave folder while I have Maptool running. It's right there along with whatever HTML chatlogs I haven't sorted yet (including the one being created and updated as MT remains open), and if I close down MT while I've got that folder open, the campaign crash recovery file vanishes, as expected and intended, while the HTML chatlogs remain (So no, the whole autosave folder is not getting flushed when you close out maptool, only the campaign crash recovery file is getting removed).
Now, the problem I am having is that all this works fine and dandy whenever I boot up MT, whether it's 1.3b91 or 1.4.0, by the direct .jar instead of the launcher. If I use the launcher to boot up MapTool, then for some reason, the HTML chatlog is not being created at all. I double-checked my Preferences after booting up MT with the launcher, and everything is as it should be, but launched MT just flat-out is not creating new HTML chatlogs, period, even when I open up the autosave folder while MT is still running.
As said in my original post, this is a huge problem for me trying to get into the habit of using the launcher properly for MT, when I rely so heavily on the auto-chatlogger, and it doesn't work when I use the launcher.
Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I'm still thinking the launcher is somehow setting the working directory to something other than the .maptool file it defaults to. the location of the working directory is in the command line shows as the bottom-most thing in the launcher. It defaults to locations relative to the directory MapTool is in, but you can get an absolute path by changing that setting on the Advanced tab. You might also check "launch with console" in the same place, and look for any error messages in the black command line box.
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I'm not confusing anything. I was hypothesizing on a possible reason for *why* it's not functioning the same when MT is launched properly... and wondering what behaviour it's *actually* supposed to be doing.Glitch(TMG) wrote: You...appear to be confusing and conflating two very different (albeit admittedly similarly named) features.
It's one thing to point out an issue, and other to try and help the devs figure out what's going on and move toward a solution.
First, intended behaviour has to be determined. Second, if there is demonstrable *unintended bahaviour*, the issue has to be identifiable and repeatable.
We have yet to establish the FIRST thing. We don't have a clear understanding of what's *supposed* to be happening.
For example, I get that you *want* the chatlog to remain after closing... but I'm not so sure that it's supposed to. If the "Campaign AutoSave" isn't supposed to remain, then what makes you think that the "AutoSave Chatlog" is? They both are set in the same box/tab in Preferences. And they both save to the same folder in the .maptool directory.
The actual BUG(s) we're discussing here might be:
1) When MT is improperly launched with the core Jar file, the AutoSave Chatlog is not erasing on close.
2) When MT is launched properly, the Autosave Chatlog is not saving at all and, consequently, if MT crashes it's not recovering properly like the "Campaign Autosave" does. In short, "AutoSave" (i.e. "Crash Recovery") is not working as it should because it does not recover the chatlog of the session that just crashed!
What you *want* it to do may actually be a Feature Request. Just like it's a Feature Request when I say that I'd like the Campaign Autosave to NOT erase on closing MT.
I agree that we need a Dev to look into this. There is definitely a bug or two at play here. But they need to also understand what it is they're trying to fix. If the Fix does not establish the behaviour you want... then you need to be lobbying for a Feature Request because the "feature" you were getting from the wrong launch file may, in fact, have always been a been a bug.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I've reported it to the devs
Since this needs to be fixed anyway, can you describe in a concise manner how you want this to work?
Edit: before you answer, can you download a Dev version and test that first and *then * answer this question?
Since this needs to be fixed anyway, can you describe in a concise manner how you want this to work?
Edit: before you answer, can you download a Dev version and test that first and *then * answer this question?
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
For what it's worth, I opened up 1.4.1.5, with and without the launcher, and typed random stuff into the chat window. In both cases, it saved to c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, which is where the working directory in the launcher says it should go. In both cases, the chat log remained after closing MapTool.
It would appear that using the MapTool shortcut on the start menu does exactly the same thing as using the Launcher shortcut - they both point to the same Windows .exe with different command line options, so it's no surprise they both do the same thing.
If I dig out the MapTool-1.4.1.5-fat.jar and launch that directly, I get what I'm guessing are default memory settings for 64 bit, or at least are different than with the launcher, and I get the same results - the chat windows is aved in c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, and again, it remained after closing MapTool.
It would appear that using the MapTool shortcut on the start menu does exactly the same thing as using the Launcher shortcut - they both point to the same Windows .exe with different command line options, so it's no surprise they both do the same thing.
If I dig out the MapTool-1.4.1.5-fat.jar and launch that directly, I get what I'm guessing are default memory settings for 64 bit, or at least are different than with the launcher, and I get the same results - the chat windows is aved in c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, and again, it remained after closing MapTool.
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- Cave Troll
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
I'm looking at the launcher (1.3b91), and I don't know what you're talking about (Or at least, I'm not seeing anything that matches what you're saying). Can you show me what you mean with specified versions, cropped screenshots, and drawn arrows/boxes?taustinoc wrote:I'm still thinking the launcher is somehow setting the working directory to something other than the .maptool file it defaults to. the location of the working directory is in the command line shows as the bottom-most thing in the launcher. It defaults to locations relative to the directory MapTool is in, but you can get an absolute path by changing that setting on the Advanced tab. You might also check "launch with console" in the same place, and look for any error messages in the black command line box.
Bold emphasis mine. No...no no no. You don't seem to be reading everything I am saying, or not closely enough, or something. You are getting ahead of things. Even if maptool is supposed to scrub a chatlog upon being closed, then I wouldn't be talking about it here, because that would be trivially easy to circumvent myself. The problem I am talking about is that no chatlog is being created while Maptool is running whatsoever, if I booted it with the launcher. Zip. Nada. Nothing. There is no chatlog to be erased in the first place! That, alone, is clearly what it is supposed to be doing but isn't. Erasing chatlogs on Maptool closing has nothing at all to do with the problem I am experiencing, whether that's supposed to happen or not. It has no relevance to the issue at hand (Though I will admittedly thank you for the heads-up that this might happen if we get the issue of chatlogs not being created in the first place fixed).Full Bleed wrote: I'm not confusing anything. I was hypothesizing on a possible reason for *why* it's not functioning the same when MT is launched properly... and wondering what behaviour it's *actually* supposed to be doing.
It's one thing to point out an issue, and other to try and help the devs figure out what's going on and move toward a solution.
First, intended behaviour has to be determined. Second, if there is demonstrable *unintended bahaviour*, the issue has to be identifiable and repeatable.
We have yet to establish the FIRST thing. We don't have a clear understanding of what's *supposed* to be happening.
For example, I get that you *want* the chatlog to remain after closing... but I'm not so sure that it's supposed to. If the "Campaign AutoSave" isn't supposed to remain, then what makes you think that the "AutoSave Chatlog" is? They both are set in the same box/tab in Preferences. And they both save to the same folder in the .maptool directory.
The actual BUG(s) we're discussing here might be:
1) When MT is improperly launched with the core Jar file, the AutoSave Chatlog is not erasing on close.
2) When MT is launched properly, the Autosave Chatlog is not saving at all and, consequently, if MT crashes it's not recovering properly like the "Campaign Autosave" does. In short, "AutoSave" (i.e. "Crash Recovery") is not working as it should because it does not recover the chatlog of the session that just crashed!
What you *want* it to do may actually be a Feature Request. Just like it's a Feature Request when I say that I'd like the Campaign Autosave to NOT erase on closing MT.
I agree that we need a Dev to look into this. There is definitely a bug or two at play here. But they need to also understand what it is they're trying to fix. If the Fix does not establish the behaviour you want... then you need to be lobbying for a Feature Request because the "feature" you were getting from the wrong launch file may, in fact, have always been a been a bug.
But, just for the sake of getting to the heart of the matter, assuming that yes, chatlogs are supposed to be wiped upon closer like campaign crash recovery files, and therefor assuming that chatlog autosave is supposed to function identically to campaign crash recovery autosave, then, therefor, the intended behavior, looking at the screenshot of the save preferences I posted earlier, is the following:
An HTML chatlog should be created, and then update-overwritten at every interval specified in the settings (just like the campaign crash recovery file). In my case, every two minutes. (And sure, for the heck of it, we can also assume that the chatlog should also be wiped after MT closing. On the other hand, putting that assumption behind, the previous statement of intended behavior is exactly how the chatlog function does work...if I don't use the launcher to boot MT).
What is not happening is the HTML chatlog is not being created at all while MT is running (and therefor no chatlog to erase on MT closing, if you want to keep assuming that).
...
Now, to go on a different topic than my issue, to address the assumption you want to keep making about MT erasing a chatlog on closing, I really don't think that is even the intended behavior in the first place. Why? Look again at this:
See that funky name in the field for the chatlog? That's the default name that MT puts there when you get a fresh and new MT in the first place. You know what that funky name does? It auto-dates the chatlog's name! All chatlogs, when you have that funky code in the namefield, are saved as "chatlog-year-month-day-hour-minute.html, as in, the year, month, day, hour, and minute that Maptool was booted up and the chatlog was created! That's wonderfully useful and I really like that!
And that's why I think that chatlog erasure probably isn't even intended behavior in the first place, because if it were, then why the hell is there not only an option to name autosaved chatlogs, but why would the default "name" be a code that auto-dates the log? If the chatlogger was only intended for crash recovery, why bother making the default name of the chatlog something that would only be useful if you were to look back on and reference it on a future date?
Er...what is the "dev" version?wolph42 wrote:I've reported it to the devs
Since this needs to be fixed anyway, can you describe in a concise manner how you want this to work?
Edit: before you answer, can you download a Dev version and test that first and *then * answer this question?
But, to answer your question anyway, what I would like MapTool to do is what it already does in every version I've tried (1.4.0.0 and 1.3b91, and when I boot MT directly instead of the launcher);
1: Create an HMTL file upon MapTool boot-up in the c:\users\username\.maptool\autosave folder (by default), and name the file "chatlog-AAAA-BB-CC-DD-EE.html" (if the code "chatlog-%1$F-%1$R.html" is in the namefield), where, as noted earlier in this post, AAAA is the year, BB is the month, CC is the day, DD is the hour, and EE is the minute of MapTool boot-up.
2: Update/overwrite said file with the latest input in MT's chatbox at every interval specified in settings.
3: Do not erase the HTML file when Maptool is properly terminated.
Though, as said, since that's what MT already does exactly (if I boot MT without the launcher), then nothing really needs to be changed there.
Now, what would be nice to have that isn't already there is perhaps a simple renaming of the two separate "Save" features in the Application tab of Preferences. Call the campaign autosaver "Campaign crash recovery autosave", and the chat autosaver "Chat Autologger" or "Auto Chatlog" or something along those lines. More clearly differentiate those two features with more accurately descriptive names.
More evidence, FullBleed, that no, autosaved chatlogs aren't even supposed to be wiped on MapTool closing in the first place.taustinoc wrote:For what it's worth, I opened up 1.4.1.5, with and without the launcher, and typed random stuff into the chat window. In both cases, it saved to c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, which is where the working directory in the launcher says it should go. In both cases, the chat log remained after closing MapTool.
It would appear that using the MapTool shortcut on the start menu does exactly the same thing as using the Launcher shortcut - they both point to the same Windows .exe with different command line options, so it's no surprise they both do the same thing.
If I dig out the MapTool-1.4.1.5-fat.jar and launch that directly, I get what I'm guessing are default memory settings for 64 bit, or at least are different than with the launcher, and I get the same results - the chat windows is aved in c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, and again, it remained after closing MapTool.
Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
thnx, I've passed it on.taustinoc wrote:For what it's worth, I opened up 1.4.1.5, with and without the launcher, and typed random stuff into the chat window. In both cases, it saved to c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, which is where the working directory in the launcher says it should go. In both cases, the chat log remained after closing MapTool.
It would appear that using the MapTool shortcut on the start menu does exactly the same thing as using the Launcher shortcut - they both point to the same Windows .exe with different command line options, so it's no surprise they both do the same thing.
If I dig out the MapTool-1.4.1.5-fat.jar and launch that directly, I get what I'm guessing are default memory settings for 64 bit, or at least are different than with the launcher, and I get the same results - the chat windows is aved in c:\user\username\.maptool\autosave, and again, it remained after closing MapTool.
And may I thus assume that your problem has been fixed??
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
...Uh, I'm the one who's having the problem, not taustinoc...wolph42 wrote:thnx, I've passed it on.
And may I thus assume that your problem has been fixed??
Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
my apologies. But as Taustinoc explains what he did and what the outcome is, it appears that your problem has been resolved in the Dev version.Glitch(TMG) wrote:...Uh, I'm the one who's having the problem, not taustinoc...wolph42 wrote:thnx, I've passed it on.
And may I thus assume that your problem has been fixed??
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Re: Launched MT will not autolog chat
Dude. I get it. And I can't spell things out any better than I have.Glitch(TMG) wrote:No...no no no. You don't seem to be reading everything I am saying, or not closely enough, or something.
I'm not assuming anything. Precisely the opposite. I was trying to identify where and what the actual "bug" was so that a possible *fix* wouldn't actually fail to solve your issue.What is not happening is the HTML chatlog is not being created at all while MT is running (and therefor no chatlog to erase on MT closing, if you want to keep assuming that).
You needn't keep pointing out what your issue is (it was clear in the op).
My biggest mistake, however, was not confirming your "bug" in the first place. The bad assumption that I did make was that if the feature was working fine for you with the core JAR and not with the Launcher, that there was actually a bug.
I've now gone back to b91 and found that I *can't* reproduce this issue.
It works fine for me (i.e the chatlog creates, saves, and stays if I set a time on the save). So, something else is at play for you.
When using the launcher, click on the Advanced tab, and insert the following text into the box that says "insert java arguments here":
Code: Select all
-DMAPTOOL_DATADIR=c:\temp\mtb91
Go set your chatlog save to 2 minutes and then go to the C:\temp\mtb91\autosave folder and see if things are working as they should.
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