A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

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VisibleMusic
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A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

We lost the whole evening on this issue, to no avail.
Using 1.3b89, I think he has Windows 7 64 bit, and he had Java 8 at the beginning (read on).
He always seem to get connected, but is stuck with a black screen and the forever "loading" message. After a while, he disconnects (this one, I can't tell if it's an automatic thing or if it's him stopping the connection, or even MapTool entirely).
We tried to have him run MapTool from the launcher, the .jar, from this, and this, even from a custom .bat file suggested somewhere in these boards (content below), always the same results.
Batch
set STACK=4M
set MAXMEM=1024M
set JAVA=javaw
set VERS=1.3.b89

start "MapTool" %JAVA% -Xmx%MAXMEM% -Xss%STACK% -jar maptool-%VERS%.jar run
The prompt asking for max/min memory and stacksize, never came out, if it's of any relevance, even after I made him edit mt.cfg to have prompt=true.
The only change was when, as a last resort, I suggested him to downgrade from java 8 to 7, but it was for worse. He tried various different installations from Java 7's archive page, including reboots, but the change I mentioned was that he started getting lots of Java errors when connecting to the server.

I have run out of things to try (I wouldn't be surprised if we did something wrong, in the things we tried, but of course I'm not aware of that), so... please... help.
He even showed a large amount of patience, installing and uninstalling Java over and over among all the other things, I wouldn't want to give up on him.

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wolph42
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by wolph42 »

holy crap, that's one shitty way to spend your evening. Let me start with some positive news, which currently doesn't help you at all (but its something to look forward to): the new stable version of maptool (to be released) will come wit jwrapper, meaning that you no longer need to install java, but it comes with its own fully packed version. Reason: to prevent crap that happened to you last night.

Suggestions for now...
- it sounds like a bust java install, so first completely clean your system of any java (IRC there's also a java scrubber out there that you can run after you have uninstalled java to remove what's left behind, but not sure).
- remove all maptool installs, including the entire .maptool dir (usually in c:\users\myName\ dir)
- When thats done: reboot.
- Then install J7 (b89 has issues with J8, not the sort that it does not run, but still)
- install mt again
run it.

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Full Bleed
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by Full Bleed »

wolph42 wrote: - Then install J7 (b89 has issues with J8, not the sort that it does not run, but still)
I hate to contradict Wolph here, but I would just go with a new Java 8 install.

I would suggest that you do everything that Wolph suggested, but install the latest Java 8. Make sure he gets the 64 bit install!

http://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

Select the Windows Offline 64-Bit install.

Also, when reinstalling Maptool and running it for the first time, make sure he accepts the security exception.


Personally, I would also suggest that you start using a newer version of MT. I've been using 1.4.0.2 for awhile now without incidence.

I also believe that his initial issue may have been a busted Data-Directory. So make sure he delete his .maptool directory as directed by Wolph. And once he's connected, make sure he lets it sit for awhile on the black screen loading assets. It can take awhile the first time around depending on the size of the campaign.

Good luck!
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

VisibleMusic
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

Thanks to both, we'll try and see.

However, I too knew about MapTool problems with Java 8, and that's why I had him downgrade to 7 (this also solved similar problems for other people, previously), so, to avoid (if possible) forcing him to reinstall/uninstall 8 and 7 in turn again, which one should I really direct him to, at first?

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Jagged
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by Jagged »

The newer versions are fine with Java 8

I have been running 1.4.0 for a while now, with Java 8 of course.

;)

VisibleMusic
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

I'm scared of switching to another version, primarily because if it causes any new trouble to the others, they'll likely hang me to a tree. :D

But assuming we do it, what has to be done exactly? Do we have to delete both the "normal" MapTool folder and .maptool, or just the first, before unzipping the new version? Or just the regular folder? Or what else?
Also, since I currently launch MapTool from the .bat myself, will I still need it?

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Jagged
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by Jagged »

You don't need to do anything.

I would recommend downloading a new Maptool.

Unzip it to a different directory.

Take a copy of your current campaign and keep that somewhere safe and never open it with the new Maptool. Thats so you can go back if need be.

Double click the launcher in the new directory and just go from there.

None of my players had any problems and they are a mix tech lot.

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lmarkus001
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by lmarkus001 »

This kind of sounds like Windows Firewall blocking Java...

VisibleMusic
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

@Imarkus001
I didn't mention it earlier, but yes, we thought it might be firewalls, so we tried turning them off on both ends too. Didn't work.
The player says he's using a normal home wi-fi. Some days ago, the GM was connecting from another location, using a pen-drive connection, and we couldn't log-in to the server; we supposed the pen had a built-in firewall of its own, so I hosted the game instead, and the GM connected successfully. This to say that even if this new player had a pen connection, he should still be able to connect, but anyway he said he doesn't use that.
Also, he seems to be actually connected; we do get the "Donald has connected to the game" message, but for him it keeps loading, then he disconnects (as said above, I don't know if it's him stopping the dead MapTool, or if he gets kicked out).

@Jagged (or anyone, actually)
In any case, I just downloaded 1.4.0.4. For now, the only question is... how do I get english back? I don't want the language for my region (it'd be appreciated if there was an option for language, rather than force me with a not-so-good translation that only confuses me and makes it more difficult to find things in the wiki), and I've tried opening mt.cfg to add "JVM=javaw -Duser.language=EN -Duser.region=US", but it didn't change the language.
Unlike the mt.cfg for b89, which had min/max memory and stacksize, this one has only "MAPTOOL_DIRECTORY=.
RELATIVE_PATHS=true"; is that right, or is it due to the files from b89 that I didn't remove?

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aliasmask
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by aliasmask »

My usual process:
* remove all versions of java
* restart computer
* install java 8 64bit which can only be done with manual download
* download latest MapTool and unzip to either my documents or just leave in download folder
* run launcher.jar file with these settings
** Max Mem: 2048
** Min Mem: 64 (default)
** Stack: 4 (3 works too)
(In your case, go to Language Tab and select English)
* Click Launch Maptool

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Full Bleed
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by Full Bleed »

VisibleMusic wrote:Some days ago, the GM was connecting from another location, using a pen-drive connection, and we couldn't log-in to the server; we supposed the pen had a built-in firewall of its own, so I hosted the game instead, and the GM connected successfully.
In this new location he was probably not properly port-forwarding. If he is going to be the server, he needs administration right at the location. If he doesn't have that you can have someone else host the server (like you did) or you all could use a VPN like Hamachi or Tungle.
Also, he seems to be actually connected; we do get the "Donald has connected to the game" message, but for him it keeps loading, then he disconnects (as said above, I don't know if it's him stopping the dead MapTool, or if he gets kicked out).
This is almost certainly 1 of 3 problems:
1) When he installed Maptool he did not accept the security exception. This is why people are requesting that he reinstall Java and Maptool and make sure he accepts the security exceptions.
2) His Data Directory was "broken". As noted above, delete the .maptool directory and run Maptool again. It will rebuild the data directory.
3) He was running too low memory for the campaign he was connecting to. You would need to provide his Help>Gather Debug Information from within Maptool to be sure. If, for example, he was incorrectly running Maptool with the jar file he was getting default memory of 256m. That might be too low.

The good thing is that all of those are easy fixes.
@Jagged (or anyone, actually)
In any case, I just downloaded 1.4.0.4. For now, the only question is... how do I get english back?
Use the "launcher-1.4.0.4.jar" file to load Maptool. Don't worry about the mt.cfg file. In the Launcher there is a "Language" tab. You can select English there.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

VisibleMusic
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

I thought (or better, hoped) after using the launcher the first time, running just maptool-1.4.0.4.jar would remember the options, but looks like not. Do I always have to run the launcher to have english (and min/max memory, etc. too)?
(Without the launcher, there was no prompt for min/max memory, etc.)

Also, at the first run of the launcher, I didn't see the "Launch MapTool" button (pretty sure there was something else where now that button is, something like "msg" or "log" followed by numbers/letters), so first I clicked the button directly above that and chose the file "maptool-1.4.0.4" (no idea what I was doind, as there was no explanation). Then, when I closed MapTool and ran the launcher again, it gave me an error (clicking ok would still run the launcher and then MapTool). Did that for 4 or 5 times, now no more, no idea why, since I didn't change anything, and I can't remember what it said. Is it alright?

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Full Bleed
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by Full Bleed »

VisibleMusic wrote:I thought (or better, hoped) after using the launcher the first time, running just maptool-1.4.0.4.jar would remember the options, but looks like not. Do I always have to run the launcher to have english (and min/max memory, etc. too)?
(Without the launcher, there was no prompt for min/max memory, etc.)
You should *never* just run the maptool.jar. Not in the newest version and not in the older versions. It's a leading cause for problems because it does not use the proper setting when you do. It uses really bad default settings.

You should always use the launcher. Previously, you'd use a launcher bat file (which, btw, you still can... see below).

The launcher will remember the last settings you used. You can, in fact, uncheck the "Prompt for settings at next launch" if you don't want to see the settings pop-up any more. In that case, when you use the launcher it'll just use your last settings and launch MT. However, keep in mind that if you do that, the only way to get the launcher settings pop-up back is to delete the mt.cfg file and re-run the launcher.
Also, at the first run of the launcher, I didn't see the "Launch MapTool" button (pretty sure there was something else where now that button is, something like "msg" or "log" followed by numbers/letters), so first I clicked the button directly above that and chose the file "maptool-1.4.0.4" (no idea what I was doind, as there was no explanation).
You were "registering" the executable. They should change the description of that button and provide more information about what it does and when to use it. It's not clear whether or not people should be clicking on it... but I can completely understadn why people would click on it and wonder why nothing happened.

Beneath it is the *actual* Launch button. That's the one you should be using once you have all of your settings set.
Then, when I closed MapTool and ran the launcher again, it gave me an error (clicking ok would still run the launcher and then MapTool). Did that for 4 or 5 times, now no more, no idea why, since I didn't change anything, and I can't remember what it said. Is it alright?
Without knowing exactly what those errors were... I can't be sure.

Truth is, I still use a custom .bat file. But the launcher works fine for me when I've tested it... there are just some pitfalls with it. For example, I don't think it's clear that you have to click on the gray text to fill in the memory settings... and when you do click on it the cursor right justifies (which is just weird!)


For reference (since I mentioned it above) here is working version of the .bat file I use for 1.4.0.2:

Code: Select all

set STACK=4M
set MAXMEM=2048M
set JAVA=javaw
set VERS=1.4.0.2

start "MapTool" %JAVA% -Xmx%MAXMEM% -Xss%STACK% -jar maptool-%VERS%.jar run
That can be used with any of the 1.4 versions with some caveats. It will only work with 64 bit Java with that memory setting. The MaxMem would need to be set below 1408 to work with 32 bit Java. This is often a problem since many people have 64 bit operating systems, but often install 32 bit Java! And, of course, the "set VERS" line would have to be changed to match the actual version you are running.

The actual launcher.jar gives you a lot more options (particularly if you don't know how to do it with a command line in the bat file) so I only suggest people try to use a bat file if they can't get anything else to work.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

VisibleMusic
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by VisibleMusic »

Full Bleed wrote:You should *never* just run the maptool.jar. Not in the newest version and not in the older versions. It's a leading cause for problems because it does not use the proper setting when you do. It uses really bad default settings.
Uhm, dumb question, maybe, but if it regularly causes problems, why isn't it changed?

Anyway, looks like the .bat doesn't read the options from the launcher, so I did this:
set JAVA=javaw -Duser.language=EN -Duser.region=US
Is that alright?

Meanwhile, the player hasn't been online since the other day; waiting for him to be back and try the suggestions.

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wolph42
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Re: A new player is unable to ever load the campaign

Post by wolph42 »

VisibleMusic wrote: Uhm, dumb question, maybe, but if it regularly causes problems, why isn't it changed?
it has been changed, but not released yet.

bottom line so far, its a java thing, you *have* to set the memory settings or else it will work with minimal settings causing all those problems. Now the dev team did also supply a mt.cfg file with settings which you can edit, but those settings are such that it must ALWAYS work on launch and since they don't know on what type of pc it will be launched those settings are minimal. If you want to use heavier frameworks you will need a heavier system and heavier settings.

Anyway with the new jwrapper function tbr at least you can't make that mistake anymore, but the fact remains that depending on the use you need to give certain settings.

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