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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:49 am 
Quote:
Lee's vanishing act and the failure to deliver the source certainly kept me from embracing it. Without those two things I just didn't see that it had much of a future.

What I've understood from the core MOTE team themselves is that Lee had a severe accident and eventually had revalidate for close to a year... so that's just really bad luck.

I agree though that its a shame that they never released their initial source to the open community as they promised...

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:12 pm 
You are posting like there was a bloody conspiracy. All the devs posted encouragement in Lee's kickstarter thread. What more do you want or expect. It's not the job of this group to support random projects that want to monetise Maptool. And it's probably unwise of us to do so.

Mote wasn't the only one either. There was another group who's name escapes me that built a version of Maptool that plugged into their shop for campaigns and map resources. Like we did with Mote, we invited them in, shared everything we had and did everything we could to make it easy for them to work together. What did the Maptool community get out of either of those projects? Nothing other than lighter wallets.

In my opinion it is dangerous for this forum to do anything that could be mistaken for a formal endorsement.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:38 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
Jagged wrote:
No one here is responsible for Mote. Maptool is an open source project so of someone want to go and try and build a product base off of it, there is very little we can do about it.
The only mistake this group made was to allow links to be maintained between this site and theirs. Something we should not do if someone attempts a similar thing in the future.

I have a very different take on the how the Mote thing went down.

As MapTool is a hobby/spare time project where no one is getting paid to work on it and the team is smallish its unfortunately susceptible to people getting too busy / personal lives getting messed up etc. This part of your post is correct.

Full Bleed wrote:

When Mote became a "thing" it was during a time of great MT malaise. The so-called "core" MT developers weren't doing much (like now). And the original Mote Primary (Lee), who was producing most of the fixes and updates for MT at the time, was motivated to do even more. However, he was clearly facing resistance with regard to his efforts and the speed with which things were moving... so he decided to fork off of what was a "dormant" MT and try to more fully realize MT's potential.

There was no resistance offered. At the time Azhrei was quite active in applying any patches creating releases even though he had not much time for anything else. Lee kept popping up in the forums, "I have a fix for this" or "I added that" but never sent any patch to be applied, he also didn't respond to queries or offers of help to integrate them. We even offered to let him take over the 1.3 builds deciding what goes into them and when to release them. He was more interested in holding on to stuff (some which he had said he had completed) for his kickstarter. Don't get me wrong the license at the time allowed him to do this he had no obligation to submit them or provide the code to anyone, but it provides background for the way I see things.
Full Bleed wrote:

It was *not* a sinister action. However, I think it failed for several reasons:

1) The core "MT" developers, who were doing almost nothing at the time, would not back it. Not even passively. It's not clear if it was because they had some particular issue with Lee or because their intentions (which have, honestly, never materialized in the many years since) conflicted with the direction Lee was going.


This is correct we decided not to back it -- and I will get into why soon -- we even had discussions about should we stop posts about it in the forums and decided not to as it might be taken as a case of sour grapes and cause a lot of unwanted noise and/or acrimony in the forums.

Some time before Lee started the kickstarter (around the time he announced he was going to do so) we approached him and offered to support him with it as long as he agreed to a couple of conditions that we didn't think were too onerous.
These were
  • The source is available so if anything goes wrong the modifications are not lost.
  • The kickstarter stipulates that while the source will be available so the MapTool team could pick up where he left off we were receiving no money from the kickstarter so can't be held responsible for non delivery of his promises.

His response was along the lines of "I don't want people looking at my code until its ready" so we asked him how about a private repository where a trusted third party can provide access if he can't complete it. His response to that was what can only be best described as a non response by dodging the question. So if he is not willing to guarantee the source would be provided and let people know that he is not making promises on our behalf why would we come out and tell people it has our support. Especially when he wont even have a discussion about any of it with us. This I have all detailed before. What I have not gone into before is whole way he dealt with out efforts to help him with support of his kickstarter left a bad taste in my mouth, at times I feel he might of well just replied with a picture of himself raising his middle finger at us.

For me it was obvious this was all about him getting enough money to support himself from a kickstarter and work on his own VTT while still benefiting from free contributions, nothing about advancing MapTool at all . Thats fine if he wanted to do that, but I certainly don't see why I should be obliged to help him do so.



Full Bleed wrote:
2) The Mote Kickstarter under performed, and then Lee fell off the face of the planet soon after (due to some some mysterious accident or issue)... leaving Mote in the hands of people the MT community knew nothing about.
3) And then, after being backed into their own little corner/island--and because they just weren't a part of the MT community--the Mote people lost all incentive to embrace the MT legacy. In fact, as far as I know, they never even delivered on opening the source for Mote... which undercut what they were supposed to be about in the first place.


The only people who backed the Mote team into a corner was the Mote team. Frankly some of their behaviour towards backers was very disappointing. Like dropping MT legacy -- this was done fairly early on -- and telling supporters that its our (MapTools team) responsibility to ensure compatibility with Mote so complain to us and tell us to support what Mote is doing (no offer of providing any of the code they had to do this). Telling people they haven't reneged on the promise to release source because "as long as at least one person of the Mote team is alive the source could be released so you cant say we broke that promise until then"(ugh how childish).

Full Bleed wrote:
So instead of being an alternative method of advancing development of MT into the next gen, it became its own thing... and will likely wither away with a fraction of the use that MT gets despite having some impressive improvements over the fork it came from.

It was always going to be its own thing, Lee never wanted it to be part of MapTool, and from his actions I am pretty sure he never intended for the functionality to be rolled back into MapTool. The new -- which I understand to be Lee's team without Lee -- Mote team never had any intention of being part of MapTool only use the RPTools forums --which thankfully they stopped doing -- I am also pretty sure they used RPTools licenses for some licensed components at the start which they certainly were not entitled to do.

Full Bleed wrote:
Its greatest effect on MT was to, eventually, drive the release of the long-awaited (mythical) 1.4... which, ultimately, ended up being a shadow of what the core MT developers hyped it up to be.

This had nothing to do with the release of 1.4.The fact that 1.3 wouldnt work properly with java 7 and how painful 1.3 was to build (and that the build number could only hadle two digits) was the catalyst. The whole Kickstarter mess caused a huge amount of motivation to be lost as people felt like Lee was aiming to essentially use the the contributors as free coders as they expected people to pay him and his other team to work on Mote (taking new features from MT as they wanted). I can honestly see why people got that impression because it very much seemed like that was his intent from his actions and our discussions with him.

In hindsight I should have posted saying we don't support the kickstarter and please don't advertise it on the forums.


Anyway this is not what this thread is about so hopefully now it can get back on topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:44 am 
Ouch! I always had a bad vibe about Mote and even without the details above, fear of it turning out that way was why I never gave it time of day. The whole situation of monetizing a great free tool just never felt right to me. Personally I hope you never let that happen again.

Speaking of monetizing, commercial concerns have marketing departments for a reason. Even though Dilbert likes to mock their existence the fact is that marketing does serve to promote a product. With MT being developed as a hobby for no money there is no impetus or budget to sell MT and promote it like a Roll20. You can't compare the 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:23 am 
Craig wrote:
As MapTool is a hobby/spare time project where no one is getting paid to work on it and the team is smallish its unfortunately susceptible to people getting too busy / personal lives getting messed up etc. This part of your post is correct.

I think this is fairly well understood amoung most MT users. But, when MT goes into these "dormant" stages the forums start seeing question about whether or not it's "Dead"... and it creates opportunities for forks to get stronger footholds. Mote would most certainly never have happened without MT having been in the state that it was.

Quote:
There was no resistance offered.

Well, I won't dredge up old threads... but there was certainly some resistance offered in the form of an amorphous "feature lock". A lock that extended far past what it was ever intended to. The lock was, on occasion, lifted for one thing or another... but there was certainly "resistance" to any major changes because so much was supposed to be "coming soon" in a future 1.4.

Quote:
Lee kept popping up in the forums, "I have a fix for this" or "I added that" but never sent any patch to be applied, he also didn't respond to queries or offers of help to integrate them. We even offered to let him take over the 1.3 builds deciding what goes into them and when to release them. He was more interested in holding on to stuff (some which he had said he had completed) for his kickstarter. Don't get me wrong the license at the time allowed him to do this he had no obligation to submit them or provide the code to anyone, but it provides background for the way I see things.

I do remember that he was offered a larger role in 1.3... and I can't say I was privy to everything that went on before that became public... but it seemed like it happened after he'd set his mind on Mote. Regardless, it certainly seemed like things were fracturing at that point.

Quote:
This is correct we decided not to back it -- and I will get into why soon -- we even had discussions about should we stop posts about it in the forums and decided not to as it might be taken as a case of sour grapes and cause a lot of unwanted noise and/or acrimony in the forums.

Yeah, it was a very weird vibe at the time.

Comment about Mote from the core was pretty non-existent... and that was a little hard to read because it could have been disapproval... indifference... disconnection... dispassion... etc.

Quote:
Some time before Lee started the kickstarter (around the time he announced he was going to do so) we approached him and offered to support him with it as long as he agreed to a couple of conditions that we didn't think were too onerous.
These were
  • The source is available so if anything goes wrong the modifications are not lost.
  • The kickstarter stipulates that while the source will be available so the MapTool team could pick up where he left off we were receiving no money from the kickstarter so can't be held responsible for non delivery of his promises.

His response was along the lines of "I don't want people looking at my code until its ready" so we asked him how about a private repository where a trusted third party can provide access if he can't complete it. His response to that was what can only be best described as a non response by dodging the question. So if he is not willing to guarantee the source would be provided and let people know that he is not making promises on our behalf why would we come out and tell people it has our support. Especially when he wont even have a discussion about any of it with us. This I have all detailed before. What I have not gone into before is whole way he dealt with out efforts to help him with support of his kickstarter left a bad taste in my mouth, at times I feel he might of well just replied with a picture of himself raising his middle finger at us.

This is closer to what I suspected at the time. And, for the record, I think the conditions are totally legit and the least that should have been expected of him. Failure to comply or embrace them was, as far as I'm concerned, a fatal mistake.

Quote:
The only people who backed the Mote team into a corner was the Mote team.

Well, it may be semantics... but lack of support was a pretty clear signal to the Mote team that they were, for all intents and purposes, on their own.

Quote:
Frankly some of their behaviour towards backers was very disappointing. Like dropping MT legacy -- this was done fairly early on -- and telling supporters that its our (MapTools team) responsibility to ensure compatibility with Mote so complain to us and tell us to support what Mote is doing (no offer of providing any of the code they had to do this). Telling people they haven't reneged on the promise to release source because "as long as at least one person of the Mote team is alive the source could be released so you cant say we broke that promise until then"(ugh how childish).

So true. I've been critical of Mote on all of those things from the start.

Quote:
It was always going to be its own thing, Lee never wanted it to be part of MapTool, and from his actions I am pretty sure he never intended for the functionality to be rolled back into MapTool.

I think he hoped/expected it to *be* the next Maptool. And, in his defense, so little had been going on with MT for so long that it wasn't a crazy thought. The future didn't look all that bright. So he probably thought he was making the next MT. Building MT 2.0 while 1.4 was still embryonic. And if Mote became what he said it was, I think it very well could have.

Quote:
Full Bleed wrote:
Its greatest effect on MT was to, eventually, drive the release of the long-awaited (mythical) 1.4... which, ultimately, ended up being a shadow of what the core MT developers hyped it up to be.
This had nothing to do with the release of 1.4.

Well, not trying to be argumentative here, but I think it spurned some new activity that probably wouldn't have happened had it not "excited" the scene... much like this thread spurned you to respond (heck, we haven't heard from you in ages!) Regardless, finally getting out of the 1.3 feature lock was a good thing...

Quote:
In hindsight I should have posted saying we don't support the kickstarter and please don't advertise it on the forums.

I agree. That probably would have been for the best. It would have hastened Mote's demise... and driven a deeper discussion about what MT's future was.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:49 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
Craig wrote:
Quote:
In hindsight I should have posted saying we don't support the kickstarter and please don't advertise it on the forums.

I agree. That probably would have been for the best. It would have hastened Mote's demise... and driven a deeper discussion about what MT's future was.

I also agree now that I have a better understanding of the situation. It seems like another incident where a person gets burned just trying to be easy going about things. Up until this thread, I always thought Mote WAS the new MT. Now I understand why I never saw anything else posted about it.

Really though, Mote should have never happened. When it gets to the point where someone who is working on MT feels the need to fork over into their own version of MT because no updates are happening, that's a red flag on how the chain of command is not working correctly. Perhaps the workflow needs to be handled differently and some control needs to be let go?

I understand if it's a situation where "this is my baby and I don't want anyone having the last say", but what good is it if nothing is progressing and yet several people are willing to help keep it progressing but can't? Doing these forks is confusing to users and is just going to cause less and less users from using it. I also don't think it needs to run its course until only a handfull of people are left using it. MT is way better than Roll20 and has way more potential than software that is paid for. I certainly don't want to use Roll20, but if I can't get anyone else to use MT, I don't have a choice but to join a Roll20 game. Quite frankly, that's what is happening with online games right now.

As I said, I totally would not mind offering my support as some sort of marketing person to promote MT in various ways. I have lots of ideas that could be quite beneficial. I just don't want to spend time, effort, and my own resources trying to get more people to use MT if it will be wasted when these people visit here and it still feels dead. They will move on if there are no updates and nobody is talking about all of the cool new features that have recently been released.

Of course, the devs might not want more people using it because it would put more pressure on them to push out new builds. Maybe they don't want to spend their free time working on it any longer even if they had the chance to do so. If that's the case, perhaps it's time to be passing the torch and letting more aggressive people work on new updates to MT. I just don't see why MT should follow Dundjinni to the grave when there seems to be people willing to still put in their free time to work on it. I really don't understand how "no updates" are better than "new dev member updates". If lack of time is the issue, then pass the torch until you can join the race again. Sorry, I just don't understand.

I hope nobody takes any offense to any criticism/finger pointing in this thread. I don't think Full Bleed or anyone is trying to badmouth the team here. So I hope nobody gets discouraged or defensive about what's being said. It's simply a few fans hoping to see their favorite VTT software get the shelf life that it deserves.

Oh, and BTW, I've visted half a dozen websites (even ones suggested in this thread) and have not found a single [Online] open game call where they mention using MT. It's all Roll20. Although, in MT defense, I only saw 1 game posted using Fantasy Grounds. Although, again, I would not be surprised if the Fantasy Grounds website has lots of LFG postings, which MT does not have here. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:25 pm 
Oryan77 wrote:
Really though, Mote should have never happened. When it gets to the point where someone who is working on MT feels the need to fork over into their own version of MT because no updates are happening, that's a red flag on how the chain of command is not working correctly. Perhaps the workflow needs to be handled differently and some control needs to be let go?

Case in point: Nerps.

Quote:
Doing these forks is confusing to users and is just going to cause less and less users from using it.

Between MT's official release (1.4.0.5) and the "development" version (1.4.1.8 ) and Nerps... we have 3 "competing" versions here on the forum... with one version or the other often being thrown at new users to address issues they might be running into when trying to install MT or get something to work. It's really not doing MT any favors and feeds into the narrative that MT is soooo much more technically challenging to get working than other VTTs (when, in fact, FG is just as "hard").

Quote:
I also don't think it needs to run its course until only a handfull of people are left using it.

As the best free VTT I think it's going to be around a long time... but other VTT's are growing share at MT's expense (even though they *still* lack some of MT's key features.)

Quote:
As I said, I totally would not mind offering my support as some sort of marketing person to promote MT in various ways. I have lots of ideas that could be quite beneficial. I just don't want to spend time, effort, and my own resources trying to get more people to use MT if it will be wasted when these people visit here and it still feels dead. They will move on if there are no updates and nobody is talking about all of the cool new features that have recently been released.

Well, you just kind of have to take a leap of faith. There is not likely to be a concerted campaign/effort to promote or drive traffic to MT at this point. Especially since there is no particular development goals set for the near future... aside from what Jamz might be doing with Nerps.

Quote:
...perhaps it's time to be passing the torch and letting more aggressive people work on new updates to MT. I just don't see why MT should follow Dundjinni to the grave when there seems to be people willing to still put in their free time to work on it. I really don't understand how "no updates" are better than "new dev member updates". If lack of time is the issue, then pass the torch until you can join the race again. Sorry, I just don't understand.

There has really only been one successful passing of the torch in MT... from Trevor to Az/Craig. And while devs have come and gone throughout their oversight, none have indicated a willingness (or capability) to "take over". And the few that may have/had the capability haven't shown much interest (as far as I can see.) So, sadly, we're probably lucky to have the life-support systems we have at this point.

Quote:
I hope nobody takes any offense to any criticism/finger pointing in this thread. I don't think Full Bleed or anyone is trying to badmouth the team here. So I hope nobody gets discouraged or defensive about what's being said. It's simply a few fans hoping to see their favorite VTT software get the shelf life that it deserves.

Given the amount of time and effort I've put into my framework... and given how feature-rich and usable it is... I suspect I'll be using MT long after it's withered on the vine. It is, however, a shame to see it wither.

Quote:
Oh, and BTW, I've visted half a dozen websites (even ones suggested in this thread) and have not found a single [Online] open game call where they mention using MT. It's all Roll20. Although, in MT defense, I only saw 1 game posted using Fantasy Grounds. Although, again, I would not be surprised if the Fantasy Grounds website has lots of LFG postings, which MT does not have here. :cry:

Well, this kind of gets to what Phergus was saying... there is no shame in just joining a game on one of the other VTT's if that's what's available. However, if you want to run a game on MT... then start advertising one. If it's a reasonably popular game system I bet you'll fill seats pretty quickly and promote MT in the process.

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:33 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
Quote:
There was no resistance offered.

Well, I won't dredge up old threads... but there was certainly some resistance offered in the form of an amorphous "feature lock". A lock that extended far past what it was ever intended to. The lock was, on occasion, lifted for one thing or another... but there was certainly "resistance" to any major changes because so much was supposed to be "coming soon" in a future 1.4.


Perhaps you should because this constantly implied suggestion of resistance IS insulting, whether you mean it or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:36 pm 
Jagged wrote:
Perhaps you should because this constantly implied suggestion of resistance IS insulting, whether you mean it or not.

I should what? Bring up threads showing where Lee (and others) were getting frustrated with the extended feature lock... or the speed with which builds were coming out... at the lack of progression? Detailing the public process (which was probably only half the story) where the idea of Mote seemed like a "path of least resistance" given the alternative? Threads where users questioned whether or not MT was still in development? What would be the point? To make people like you even more sore over an unfortunately reality? Despite what you may think, I'm not out to "prove you wrong."

This thread, for example, is a prime case. A user here (Oryan77) is frustrated that his favorite VTT doesn't seem to get much respect or have much (comparative) traction. He seems to be wondering how it can be this good, free, and so "over-looked". And while I don't necessarily agree with every conclusion he's coming to (and challenging them as I see them, offering suggestions and some background, etc.) I do know we don't see threads like this when MT is firing on more cylinders. We see questions about MT's future and development when things slow down for extended periods of time. This isn't the first time.

Again, just how much better than MT proper does Nerps have to be to become the defacto MT? Where are all the nifty Nerps things that Jamz has submitted to be applied to MT? As a thought experiment: If he didn't have Nerps, but had done all that development with it sitting in a que, would it be fair to call that something akin to "resistance"? I mean, I'm not trying to put Jamz on the hot-seat here... or, god forbid, chill his development by causing him to worry about people seeing Nerps as some kind of "threat" to MT proper (that's clearly not his intention)... but a red flag is a red flag.

Heck, *I'll* take the discussion one step further since the OP is inviting such a discussion... and because Jamz certainly won't say it: I think Jamz' work on MT appears to be leaning into the wind. To be facing "resistance". And if he were to, at some point, give up on MT proper and focus solely on Nerp I don't think I'd blame him. And then, as a MT user I'd have to make another decision I'd prefer not to (like I had to with Mote)...

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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:40 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
I should what?

You keep suggesting the core devs were providing resistance to Lee/Mote. I'm saying prove it. You won't be able to because they weren't.

Full Bleed wrote:
Heck, *I'll* take the discussion one step further since the OP is inviting such a discussion... and because Jamz certainly won't say it: I think Jamz' work on MT appears to be leaning into the wind. To be facing "resistance". And if he were to, at some point, give up on MT proper and focus solely on Nerp I don't think I'd blame him. And then, as a MT user I'd have to make another decision I'd prefer not to (like I had to with Mote)...

Unlike me, Jamz will probably have the sense to stay out of the discussion BUT since we have been testing his Nerps builds and talking about how we incorporate his work, this last comment sounds like conspiracy theory! He builds the more radical changes into his build first and plays with them a bit before submitting them to the main branch, just so you know.


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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:16 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
Heck, *I'll* take the discussion one step further since the OP is inviting such a discussion... and because Jamz certainly won't say it: I think Jamz' work on MT appears to be leaning into the wind. To be facing "resistance". And if he were to, at some point, give up on MT proper and focus solely on Nerp I don't think I'd blame him. And then, as a MT user I'd have to make another decision I'd prefer not to (like I had to with Mote)...

Hm. You haven’t visited the Github repo page lately, have you? There are no outstanding pull requests waiting t be merged into the dev branch of MT. In layman’s terms, that means there are no patches available that haven’t already been accepted and applied.

If you’ll read Jamz’s thread regarding what Nerps is and what it isn’t, you’ll find that he states up front that it’s a testbed for his own ideas and not necessarily a testbed for things that will be merged into MT. (Some things obviously have been, some things likely will never be, and somethings I’d like to see merged but they need to be a little more structured.)


I will certainly admit my own failings in regard to MT. My first failing is that I’m not running a regular game right now so I’m not using it all the time. When I was running my Pathfinder Curse of the Crimson Throne game or playing in Ted’s Legacy of Fire campaign, using MT was a periodic thing (at least every two weeks, sometimes more) and that was a great driver of innovation for me! I wanted certain features to be implemented for my own use! Alas, I now play only sporadically and only for a couple of hours at a time. :(

One thing I’ve noticed as I’ve gotten older... I can’t focus as well as I used to. I use to multitask pretty well, jumping from topic to topic easily. Now, I find that if I have to leave my editor for more than a few minutes, it can take me five or ten minutes to pick back up where I left off in terms of my thought process. (I ascribe that to age!) One benefit to this though, is that I find myself doing more design work in advance of coding (always a good thing!) and using methodologies that result in documentation being written before and during the writing of code. Those are techniques that make it easier for me to come back to code and pick up where I left off.


In closing, I’d like to thank FB for stirring things up. When too much sediment gathers at the bottom of a bottle, it’s important to either (a) pour off the clear liquid and leave the sediment behind, or (b) shake the bottle up and try to dissolve the sediment back into the liquid. (In the case of the Kahlua that my mother makes from scratch, I prefer the latter. :mrgreen: ) MT could certainly handle some of the former.

Oh, and a belated Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it, and a Happy New Year! :wink:


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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 am
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Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:17 pm 
Sigh. I've tried not to contribute to the thread jacking but...

As the users may or may not know, RPtools runs a private instance of Slack. All the developers (including me) and other very active core users/scriptwriters are in it. We talk pretty regularly and it's a lot of chatter that would just be noise on the forum (we don't Slack to keep things from users, it's just more convenient).

The #1 reason (and I think I've said this many times) that there is a "Nerps" build is because I use MapTool every Sunday for a private game. Back in 1.3b89 days I would patch/create something, create my own JAR, use it, and submit a patch for Az to use if he wanted. To this date, I think there has only been one patch not included (and I don't fault them for it, it's not a big deal).

Last year I had a LOT of free time and was able to get about a years worth of "updates" created, which is the result of 1.4.1.x. jWrapper was a big change and it worked well for me but as we rolled it into RPtools repo, there have been a lot of pain points, and since then jWrapper is no longer a free tool going forward. So we have to change gears and that takes time. This is why it's a "dev" release and why it's still not "official".

Also note, I was a Mote kickstarter contributor as well, 50$. I had hoped that if anything, Lee would improve a few things and we could port that back if needed. But you know the story by now. Which is also why I stress my fork is Open Source, Always. If something happened to me tomorrow, my code is there for someone else to pick up.

Bottom line, resistance is a bad word. If anything, I just work at a different pace because I can. Personally I think the whole thing is silly. If you think my fork should be the main repo, then just use it? It's not like there's a "compatibility" issue. Hell, you can even port your campaign back to 1.4.0.1 if needed. If you want to wait until it's been vetted, then wait, it will get there eventually. And that's not always on the core team, I still have to create the Pull Request (which takes time on my end). To my knowledge, all the active dev/members get along very well and I for one am glad they even stuck around this long. Some people may not be "active" on the forums, but trust me, they are available every day and hold the fort down.

_________________
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork


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Dragon
 
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:14 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:36 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
My first failing is that I’m not running a regular game right now so I’m not using it all the time.

Hey, we can change that! I know someone in this thread that is totally looking to join a Maptool game. :lol:
I'm even hoping to join a 3.5 or Pathfinder game to boot. It'll be a great excuse for you to get back into the groove. :P

Don't take this thread as a bad thing. It has been very insightful and I now understand more about what goes on behind the scenes. I'm glad everyone piped in because it cleared up a lot about the confusion over Mote, NERPS, and v1.4 to a casual observer like myself. Now I understand what I'm doing when I pick a version to use. Thanks guys.


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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 1749
Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:42 pm 
Oryan77 wrote:
Azhrei wrote:
My first failing is that I’m not running a regular game right now so I’m not using it all the time.

Hey, we can change that! I know someone in this thread that is totally looking to join a Maptool game. :lol:
I'm even hoping to join a 3.5 or Pathfinder game to boot. It'll be a great excuse for you to get back into the groove. :P


Thumbs Up for getting thread back on track! I see what you did there haha

BTW, if you are interested in pathfinder:

1. Look up and listen to the Glass Cannon Podcast!
2. If you like it, look for the Glass Cannon Podcast Discord/Reddit channels. There are quite a few that get together to game (and they have channels in Discord just for looking for games. (there seems to be regular PFS games going on). PFS is great way to play some Pathfinder until you find a "Campaign" to join...

_________________
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork


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Dragon
 
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 372
 Post subject: Re: Finding Maptool games?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:36 pm 
JamzTheMan wrote:
1. Look up and listen to the Glass Cannon Podcast!
2. If you like it, look for the Glass Cannon Podcast Discord/Reddit channels. There are quite a few that get together to game (and they have channels in Discord just for looking for games. (there seems to be regular PFS games going on). PFS is great way to play some Pathfinder until you find a "Campaign" to join...

Hah! What a coincidence. I just started listening to TGC no more than 2 weeks ago. I'm up to the episode where they begin book 2 of Giantslayer. I recently tried getting into D&D podcasts and tried out 2 other's that, although were fine podcasts, the players styles just weren't my thing. I couldn't get into their games. I saw a random post on Reddit about Glass Cannon and tried it out. The first session had me hooked.

They are the type of people that I prefer playing D&D with and I relate much more to their style of gaming. They have just the right amount of OOC jokes, but do plenty of roleplaying without making a mockery of the game. The DM is hilarious to boot. I love it.

I recently lost 2 great players in my ongoing face-2-face game due to them both moving away. I have not had much luck finding new players since it's harder these days to get people into a 3.5e game when most players are playing 5e. TGC really gives me hope that I can eventually fill seats again with some great new players just as good as those guys. I was just talking about the podcast to my wife last night. So funny that you brought it up.

I'm new to Reddit and didn't realize they had a channel. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.


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