1 more FoW layer.

[hennebeck]

For 4th edition, there are only 3 types of light.

Bright.
Dim.
None.

Bright is No FoW
Dim is ---
None is FoW.

I tried making a dim light, but then those with Lowlight vision could see that light twice as far.

So all we need is FOW and 1/2FOW.
4e players would appreciate it.

[dorpond]

I think you are a bit confused Hennebeck.

First off, FOW has nothing to do with lighting. FOW just represents what parts of the maps have not been visited yet (Hard FOW), what parts have been visited but you can no longer see (Soft FOW), and what parts you can currently see atm (No FOW).

It has nothing to do with lighting - for example, it doesn't mean that it is shadowy over here because it visually looks darker.

This can easily happen though - I have found players thinking this. they see Soft Fog and think it is shadowy over there and they see their Line of Sight and think it is a light source -- both are false but it looks that way on screen.

I have thought long and hard about this though - I even played around in code and messed around with the translucency of FOW and even made it white instead of black in hopes to eliminate confusion with users - nothing really helped and I went back to the way it is currently.

Also, did you know that you can create your own campaign properties for 4th edition? Doing so will remove all the 3rd edition lighting. you can define a normal vision and a lowlight vision - just make them the same - both normal:

[Sight Tab]
Normal:
Lowlight:

As far as lighting, setup your own 4th edition lights. This is my setup:

[Light Tab]
D&D 4e
----
Tiny fire creature - 2 : square 2.50
Small fire creature - 5 : square 5.50
Medium fire creature - 10 : square 10.50
Sunrod - 20 : square 20.50
Forge - 2 : square 2.50
Fireplace/oven - 5 : square 5.50
Magma - 40 : square 40.50
Torch - 5 : square 5.50
Large fire creature - 20 : square 20.50
Everburning - 20 : square 20.50
Campfire - 10 : square 10.50
Phosphorescent fungi - 10 : square 10.50#000000
Huge or Gargantuan fire creature - 40 : square 40.50
Lamp - 15 : square 15.50
Lantern - 10 : square 10.50
Sacrificial brazier- 10 : square 10.50
Candle - 2 : square 2.50#000000

With the above setup, bright light is clear (until Trevor makes lighting overlap better) and Dim Light is darker. Works well - the players can see the difference. If you don't like that shadowy, try a blueish color for shadowy like #0635ff instead of #000000.

[PillBox]

I think A new FOW layer would be excellent.

In one of my Dungeons the players come across a large room. Inside is some large creature (no yet decided on one). At this point, they cannot get into the room as large bars do not allow access.

Later on in the adventure (and on a different map) the Party may encounter a trap door that drops them down into this room.

The new FOW layer would come in handy as it will not reveal parts of the same map they have already explored (they may not have even seen this room in the first place). In some of my maps the players can return to the same level from a different route, and having a second FOW would be handy (once they realise where they are, I can reveal the older FOW - with the current system the FOW would need to be reset, loosing the explored areas).

[Azhrei]

I put both levels on the same "map" in MapTool, but I draw a line of VBL between the two levels so that any FOW exposed on one side doesn't bleed over to the other side.

It isn't great -- especially when I don't put a large enough gap between the two map levels -- but overall it works very well. This is one area where I'd like to see the drawings become stamps that can be moved, since right now I can't select everything from one level and drag it away from the other level. In fact, with four map layers I have to select everything and move them three times (I don't use the Hidden layer much). Kind of a pain, but the workaround is for me to plan ahead a little better.

[Phergus]

You want to move this to the MT forum, Az?

[Azhrei]

(Hmm, it's already there. Did I move it earlier or did someone else catch it? You would think I would notice a thread out of place when I post to it, wouldn't you!? As it is, I don't read all threads so there are likely to be some that other moderators will have to catch or people will have to PM me about.)

[BruntFCA]

I think FoW and lighting could do with their own detailed tutorial. I watched all the vids and still spent hours wondering what was going on. Also all the nomenclature seems too similar.

Do you need the "vision" state and the "Fog of War" state. If FoW is off, does this not imply 100% vision. Also setting night to on would imply that FoW would automatically be on? There surely must be some way to take out the redundancy in the options and make it less confusing.

BTW once you do get to understand the lighting system, its very good, since it gives more realistic options than other VTT.

[Phergus]

Do you need the "vision" state and the "Fog of War" state. If FoW is off, does this not imply 100% vision. Also setting night to on would imply that FoW would automatically be on?

Day mode means that you can see other tokens to the limit of the max vision setting for the map or your characters vision if they have a vision enabled. VBL blocks line of sight.

Night mode means you can only see what is illuminated. While you would generally use this with FoW turned on, not always. In a nighttime outdoor setting where the characters are familiar with the terrain I don't use FoW. VBL blocks line of sight.

[Rumble]

I think FoW and lighting could do with their own detailed tutorial. I watched all the vids and still spent hours wondering what was going on. Also all the nomenclature seems too similar.

Do you need the "vision" state and the "Fog of War" state. If FoW is off, does this not imply 100% vision. Also setting night to on would imply that FoW would automatically be on? There surely must be some way to take out the redundancy in the options and make it less confusing.

BTW once you do get to understand the lighting system, its very good, since it gives more realistic options than other VTT.

There's a Light/Sight tutorial I wrote on the Wiki. It's not complete - it really needs a dedicated video to go with it - but there's a basic explanation of the functions and how Vision and Fog interact.

You can check it out here.

[BruntFCA]

Thanks. that wikki looks awesome.

One thing thats confusing is that there does not appear to be a way to obsucre the map totally. FoW to me means you can't see a the "background" map.

In most games I've played the map gets "revealed". However in maptools, users can basically see the whole map, even with "fog of war", all thats hidden are tokens.

[IMarvinTPA]

FOW works differently for the DM vs Players. Full FOW for the players is a solid color or texture (defined by you when you created the map.) If you are the DM, it has a transparency.

So, make sure that isn't what you're seeing first.

IMarv

[heyes]

Thanks. that wikki looks awesome.

One thing thats confusing is that there does not appear to be a way to obsucre the map totally. FoW to me means you can't see a the "background" map.

In most games I've played the map gets "revealed". However in maptools, users can basically see the whole map, even with "fog of war", all thats hidden are tokens.

It sounds like you have the vision setting to "day" if you set it to night, assign some lights (to pcs or objects) you might get what you are looking for.

[Rumble]

Fog of War works in Day Mode, too. However, without VBL, the first time visual area is exposed, it will expose it out to the visual limit of the token - which could be, basically, "everything." Day Mode, basically, assumes a universal light source.