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Kobold
 
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 2
 Post subject: A feature request
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:56 am 
DiceTool is splendid and all, except for a single thing:
When you rule xdy+z you get the total rolled, instead of the dice roll + bonus = total. This is annoying since you can't tell, for example, if you scored a critical without subtracting the actual bonus to get your dice roll.
This feature is present in MapTool though, so it's just moving a bit of code, right?

-Anaxim


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RPTools Founder
 
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:10 am
Posts: 277
Location: Austin, TX
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:55 am 
MapTool and DiceTool use different expression engines currently. DiceTool's is more powerful, but doesn't do well with sub-parsed expressions like you are requesting. MapTools is very simple at this point and doesn't handle very complex math.

However, that is not the best situation having 2 different engines so I recently wrote a new unified expression engine for them both to use that shows the subexpressions and provides the more complex math and expansion capabilities for MapTool. I am currently working on integrating that with MapTool but will re-prioritize integrating it with DiceTool.

One of the problems I have found was the display in DiceTool. Personally, the way I use DiceTool, the tabular layout works well but there isn't as much room for additional information. Do you have a suggestion of what you would like to see here?

Thanks for the input and suggestion...

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~Giliath


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RPTools Founder
 
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:10 am
Posts: 277
Location: Austin, TX
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:58 am 
As an aside, the ability to add functions to DiceTool is how I dealt with the problem you are trying to solve. For example, if you put this expression into DiceTool: att(17)+15 it will roll a d20 and let you know if you roll a 1, 20 or within the crit-range 17-20.

Obviously this is d20-centric and you would have to add additional functions using the javascript integration if you wanted it to behave differently.

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Dragon
 
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 638
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:00 pm 
I like the idea of having separate tools that work together, in that I like the idea of DiceTools being separate from Maptools for those who don't want that functionality in their sessions, and I like the idea of having separate windows for different functions.

However, I find my self wanting to have DiceTool results show up in MapTool's chat. Maybe I'm missing the main idea behind Dice Tool and using it wrong. But I really like the idea of the variables in DiceTool, with the functional separation of tabs. But because it can't "show" it's commands and results in the MapTool, or to other players I end up not using it.

Maybe I'm using it wrong?


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RPTools Founder
 
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:10 am
Posts: 277
Location: Austin, TX
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:08 pm 
No, I don't think you are using it wrong. DiceTool is actually the oldest of the RPTools projects with most of its code-base written over 2 years ago. DiceTool was originally a GM-centric tool to ease combat management.

I never liked the way that DMGenie or any of the other applications I could find structured their windows because they end up taking up too much screen space for doing the complex math involved in running the game. DiceTool was my answer to this problem.

In the future, I would like to see the tools integrate better so that you can see the results in the MapTool chat windows, but for right now we are making MapTool's expressions a little more powerful.

How do you see the rolls being integrated? Would you like a right-click->send to MapTool for a result? Can you clarify what you think it should do?

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Dragon
 
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 638
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:24 pm 
When I first used the tool I looked desperately for a button that let me "connect" the Dice Tool output to MapTool.

When I couldn't find that I then, tried to find a way to connect users to my DiceTool, or connect DiceTool on one machine to another.

Then I tried to do some of the things in DiceTool in MapTool, and found out I couldn't. But I could share roll information if not with the power. And I chose some automation with communication over no communication with lots of power.

Sorry but, I'm not sure how I want the interface to work. Maybe this will help... I was expecting it to automatically or manually hook up to MapTool and then show everything every time I rolled in both places. As soon as I say that though I worry that I will not be able to test my macros without them being forced to show up for others. I'm lazy and I usually work on macros during a session. The power I'm after in Dice Tool is not the mass die rolls it does but actually as a dynamic character macro controller. I really like running melee classes as a player, and lots of their power, comes from feats that let you move attack modifiers, and other numbers around. If I understand the variables correctly, I should be able to create "modes" of my fighter (dual wielding, shield holding, shield bashing this turn, full attack this turn) and other things in the variables, and then create macros that change those modes. And even build in fighting defensively, power attack mods, and other things. This would require variables based on variables, and macros that can change variables as well as use them. Those are the things I was expecting when I read that DiceTool had macros and variables.

Does that help at all?


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RPTools Founder
 
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:10 am
Posts: 277
Location: Austin, TX
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:07 pm 
Interface:

I am concerned about showing rolls in both places all the time. As a GM you probably don't want all your rolls to show up all the time. As a player that might be different, except when you are working on the macros as you say. Perhaps just having a checkbox on DiceTool that enables the flow of information from DiceTool -> MapTool. We are going to have to think about this more, but sometime during 1.2 or 1.3 of MapTool we will be taking a good hard look at how things should integrate.

Usage:
Yes it does... Regrettably, not all of what you want is currently possible in the way that you want. Variables cannot be set in DiceTool within an expression. Since DiceTool is expression-centric and not a more general macro engine this is a little complex. Let me think about it and see what we can come up with.

Thanks again for your input.

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Codeum Arcanum (RPTools Founder)
 
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Posts: 11390
Location: Austin, Tx
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:33 pm 
giliath wrote:
Do you have a suggestion of what you would like to see here?


Tooltip on the result cell that shows the component breakdown of the roll.

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Dreaming of a 1.3 release


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RPTools Team
 
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 98
Location: Austin, TX
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:31 pm 
trevor wrote:
giliath wrote:
Do you have a suggestion of what you would like to see here?


Tooltip on the result cell that shows the component breakdown of the roll.


I like that just fine.

I think another idea might be to have two different output tabs. Table and Log.
Log could be what we eventually will send to the chat channels (and in addition to showing individual roll results could be built up with text and other bits and pieces).


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Dragon
 
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:43 pm
Posts: 280
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:55 pm 
Well, I think we have to compromise here...What I would assume is since we are talking about multiple chat windows...why not do the following... Have DiceTools send the data to a desired chat window. The DM could have an extra window where rolls he wants hidden goto. This could also server as a place to put general notes for the DM by the DM. Also have it put one output that is like a link where if you hover over it you see the individual roll results. So it takes little chat space but you can also see the math display if needed. But the main thing is that we need to have it easy to learn to use...very minimal command functions for ease of use.

Somelike this...
/me attacks with her greatsword hitting AC {1d20+4} for {2d6+6} damage.
would output
Dalna attacks with her greatsword hitting AC 18 for 13 damage.
mousing over 18 would show {1d20(14)+4} and mousing over 13 would show {2d6(2,5)+6}

ofcoarse you could use a preset variable like {gsatt} and {gsdam} if we set up premade variables. Or maybe {gsatt,0} and {gsdam,0} where the zero is there as an adjustment for spells or whatever other effects. But that is getting ahead of ourselves right now.


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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:03 am
Posts: 1023
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:35 am 
my thoughts (or, atleast someone else's who i agreed with) was that it'd be really nice if desired, that any rolls entered into maptools as a chat or macro, would get sent to dice tool for computation, and returned to maptool as a result, possible, with some other options. i'm thinkin, like, dlana (i think) said, you put something into maptools like

I swing my sword hitting AC {dt:1d20+5} for {dt:1d10+2} damage, but i dont know how this would work for doing things like hidden rolls, or anything like that.


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Dragon
 
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:43 pm
Posts: 638
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:59 am 
aku wrote:
my thoughts (or, atleast someone else's who i agreed with) was that it'd be really nice if desired, that any rolls entered into maptools as a chat or macro, would get sent to dice tool for computation, and returned to maptool as a result, possible, with some other options. i'm thinkin, like, dlana (i think) said, you put something into maptools like

I swing my sword hitting AC {dt:1d20+5} for {dt:1d10+2} damage, but i dont know how this would work for doing things like hidden rolls, or anything like that.


I agree with this. My fellow dnd players tell me they won't use any of the other tools until they can communicate with MapTools. If I had the power to put anything on the SUPER HIGH PENULTIMATE priority level it would be the communication of this tool and all others with MapTools.

I don't have a preference if the macros are in MapTools or in DiceTool, but the results need to show up in the Chat box, and in the long run MapTools should be aware of DiceTool's macros, variables, and rolls.

This is also the same opinion I have for the InitTool.


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