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 Post subject: I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:45 am 
Corea wrote:
I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped but I'm having some trouble.

What is the difference between Armor and ArmorMod? Shield and ShieldMod, etc?

Why the inclusion of ability mods? For armors that give you mod bonuses?

It's strange because if I enter 5 for armor or armor mod my AC increases by 10. (edit: I noticed that even after edits, the properties do not change. Bug? That is why my AC does not change even when I edit a field back to 0 or a different number)


In D&D/Pathfinder, Armor Class is calculated from several elements. These include (and have single non-inclusive examples):

Armor Bonus -- Worn armor
Bonuses to Armor Bonus -- Magic pluses to worn armor
Shield Bonus -- Equipped Shield
Bonuses to Shield Bonus -- Magic pluses to equipped shield
Natural Armor Bonus -- Creature's skin
Bonuses to Natural Armor Bonus -- Spells like Barkskin
Dodge Bonus
Deflection Bonus
Size Bonus
Dexterity Bonus

So when you are creating equipment for your character, some of that equipment will be armor. Basic armor grants an Armor Bonus. Magic armor grants an Armor Bonus and usually grants an Enhancement Bonus to the Armor Bonus (so yes this is confusing as it is a bonus to a bonus).

You should NOT use the dialog to directly edit your armor class ( editCharacter > Armor ) as that was the old way of dealing with AC. Now you should always create an item that is your armor (giving it the relevant mods) and the equip that item. This goes for things like Natural armor too (a creature's skin). The reasons for creating a Natural armor item are it helps process stacking of bonuses and it makes applying Polymorph doable.

So back to the discussion of armor. A suit of +1 Leather Armor would give a 2 Armor Bonus, and a 1 Enhancement Bonus to the Armor Bonus (or in terms of the mod-set dialog, a 2 Armor Bonus, and a 1 ArmorMod with a bonus type of Enhancement).

All Bonuses to Armor Bonuses need to be processed using the bonus type stacking rules. Additionally, Armor Bonus itself is subject to the stacking rules.

For example:

If you are wearing +1 Chainmail( 5 Armor, 1 Enhancement to Armor ) and have cast on you Mage Armor ( 4 Armor ) the Armor bonuses do not stack, so only the highest armor bonus will be used (in this case 5 from Chainmail so the 4 from the Mage Armor is superseded).

If you are wearing +1 Leather ( 2 Armor, 1 Enhancement to Armor ) and have cast on you Mage Armor ( 4 Armor ), then you fall into a sticky rules wicket. The Armor bonuses do not stack, so only the highest armor bonus will be used (in this case 4 from Mage Armor so the 2 from the Leather is superseded). But now we get into a grey area. The +1 to the Leather is a +1 Enhancement Bonus to your Armor Bonus. So logically (and what my code does programmatically) your AC would go from 13 (+1 Leather, medium size, no dex) to 15 ( Mage Armor plus +1 Enhancement ). Many folks might balk at this because the +1 enhancement intuitively seems to be just enhancing the Armor Bonus that the Leather is giving.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:09 am 
lmarkus001 wrote:
If you are wearing +1 Chainmail( 5 Armor, 1 Enhancement to Armor ) and have cast on you Mage Armor ( 4 Armor ) the Armor bonuses do not stack, so only the highest armor bonus will be used (in this case 5 from Chainmail so the 4 from the Mage Armor is superseded).


I noticed the base armor doesn't stack, but the enhancement from one adds to the other, leather +2 is AC 3 and with mage armor added it becomes AC 6 (4 for mage armor, 2 for enhancement from leather). In my game, they just take off the physical armor so it calculates correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:12 am 
aliasmask wrote:
I noticed the base armor doesn't stack, but the enhancement from one adds to the other, leather +2 is AC 3 and with mage armor added it becomes AC 6 (4 for mage armor, 2 for enhancement from leather). In my game, they just take off the physical armor so it calculates correctly.


Correctly is in debate here. The +2 Enhancement Bonus to Armor Bonus is just that, an enhancement to your Armor bonus. If you change what is giving you the bigger Armor Bonus, does that mean the Enhancement is no longer active? It can be argued both ways and I went the way of easier coding.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:12 am 
lmarkus001 wrote:
Correctly is in debate here. The +2 Enhancement Bonus to Armor Bonus is just that, an enhancement to your Armor bonus. If you change what is giving you the bigger Armor Bonus, does that mean the Enhancement is no longer active? It can be argued both ways and I went the way of easier coding.

Hmm, interesting interpretation. I don't think I've ever seen it reasoned that way.

The rules say that similar bonuses don't stack. They also say that multiple items worn in a single body slot don't stack and, in fact, neither of them work. And then last, the mage armor spell says that the armor it creates is made of force.

That sounds like mage armor is creating armor made of force which cannot stack with any other worn armor. In fact, when two items are worn in the same slot neither one functions! Very interesting! That means mage armor cast on someone with leather +2 removes all armor bonuses!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm trying to get some proper armor equipped
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:13 pm 
Wearing leather under full plate, I can tell you from personal experience does stack :). Also, there are plenty of other systems that do stack armor (like Gurps) and even D&D had piece meal rules at one time. But in D&D the armor rule says:
Quote:
Armor/Shield Bonus
Each armor grants an armor bonus to AC, while shields grant a shield bonus to AC. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn’t stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn’t stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.

So, when they say don't stack, that just means they're looked at independently, just like other things in D&D that don't stack. So, to me that means to take the highest Armor AC. Otherwise, I could cast Mage Armor against the dwarf in mountain plate and reduce his armor down to 4... doesn't make sense.

I just remembered I have a resource from WotC. As for the enhancement bonus, from a WotC article it appears the enhancement bonus becomes a part of the armor bonus and isn't separate. I've attached the pdf document that gives some pretty good examples.


Does it Stack.zip [51.35 KiB]
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