Pathfinder and swarms

[neofax]

I am having a hard time getting swarms to work properly in Pathfinder mode using the FW. Reason is if I set the swarm to their proper size of diminutive, the numbers are all correct, but the token size is wrong. If I set the token size to Large(10x10), the numbers are wrong but the size is correct. So, how does everyone else handle this?

[jsharen]

Set the size to be correct, then double click on the token and hover over the image, and use the mouse wheel to increase the size of the image.

Just an idea.

[Azhrei]

if I set the swarm to their proper size of diminutive, the numbers are all correct, but the token size is wrong.

Why would you want a 10x10 swarm to be marked Diminutive? That size field is the "D&D-defined" size of the creature, which should be Large.

[neofax]

Yes, you can set it Large, but then the AC is off by 1 or 2 points and the Attack is off. So you either set the size properly and turn off snap to grid and use a aura or manually resize the token larger like the other poster. Or, set the size Large and fix the numbers.

[Azhrei]

Yes, you can set it Large, but then the AC is off by 1 or 2 points and the Attack is off. So you either set the size properly and turn off snap to grid and use a aura or manually resize the token larger like the other poster. Or, set the size Large and fix the numbers.

Why would the AC and BAB be wrong if you created the token using the Statblock2Token macro? Wouldn't the attack and AC modifiers from the statblock already include the size Large? And if not, a simple change to the text of the statblock prior to importing it would do the trick.

If the S2T macro doesn't already handle this them perhaps it should look for the word "swarm" or "vermin" in the first few lines of the statblock and set things up appropriately.

[jsharen]

Swarms don't follow the normal rules for size. They are listed as tiny, however they take up a 10 foot space. This is why the confusion. All stats are given as if they are tiny, as you have to hit the little guys to do damage, but for the rest they take up an area.

Cheers!

[Azhrei]

Okay, gotcha! So the statblock has "Tiny" or "Diminutive" and that screws up the statblock2token macro.

It looks like the S2T macro uses the size from the beginning of the statblock (Diminutive, for example) instead of the Space field later in the block. It should be using Space, since that's the footprint of the creature on the 5-ft grid.

However, due to the way the v1.8 S2T macro works this isn't easy to do. I haven't looked at v2.0 of the S2T macro so it might be better.

I really had planned to rewrite the S2T macro when Imper1um came along and decided to do so! (It had only been on my todo list for about 8 months! ) I was thinking the best approach was to tokenize the entire statblock and then pick out the information between tokens. This would work for the simple cases, but to truly do this job correctly would require a full-blown parser. And that's not worth the effort.

The good news is that others have done some of the work of writing parsers in JavaScript, so at some point in the future this particular task will be much simpler. Although it will still require someone who understands both parsers and statblocks, and in particular how statblocks might vary.

Actually, it looks like this one runs in a web browser window and can be fed the grammar prior to parsing. This is likely the easiest way to play around, although MT will need something slightly different.

Oh well...

[dragonlady]

Isn't part of the problem is that swarms taking up 4 squares, don't actually HAVE to form a 10x10 square, but must only be 'touching' each other to form a shape or string?

So functionalitywize you actually need 4 shapes (small) while only having one accounting (HP total).

[neofax]

Yes, you can do this as well but then you run into the HP problem. The HP problem can be circumvented using a "Master" token(this way you only apply the damage and states to it) and number the other three in some manner to recognize they all belong to the same group. Something like Hellwasp Swarm Master, Hellwasp Swarm 102, Hellwasp Swarm 103, Hellwasp Swarm 104.

[Azhrei]

This will be soooo cool in MT 1.4. We're changing the way tokens are done so that the data will only exist once (one set of properties, states, etc) but the token itself will appear on multiple maps. So you could create a "Swarm" token and then put it on the same map a total of four times. Any properties that are adjusted (like HP) would apply to all four. In essence, the token becomes a reference to a separate object which actually holds all the information. Like a shortcut on Windows or a symbolic link on Un*x systems.

[neofax]

d20Pro does it this way or so it seems. This will help alleviate some problems. Although, I do like having a repository page where you keep back-up copies of tokens. Yes, I know I can keep a copy on my hard drive outside of the campaign.

[SDShannonS]

Yeah, that's basically how I handle swarms. For a 10x10 block, I create 4 5x5 tokens named Swarm 1, 2, 3, and 4. As I move them, I ensure that they are all adjacent by the end of their move.

When they get damaged, I just select all 4 tokens and apply damage to them all.

Works great. If the image of a swarm is difficult to make out against the background, I just apply a halo around each of the 4 tokens to increase their visibility.


Shannon