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Giant
 
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:12 am
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:32 am 
Vulnerable acid damage or any damage.Its basically a way to make something damage more.Resistance is the exact opposite.On the management-edit character,you can select which ones you want to effect the player with different multiples.


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Kobold
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:52 am 
lol thanks what a shame I didn't recognize it :P

another question: is there another way I can put armor check penalty for skills other that adding it to the "misc" entry?
And also, why defenses does not lready include half level bonus in them?
Thanks in advance!


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Giant
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:09 pm 
Quote:
another question: is there another way I can put armor check penalty for skills other that adding it to the "misc" entry?


Armor in Rumble's is a straight forward value

Quote:
And also, why defenses does not lready include half level bonus in them?


Once again if your create a character say level 5,you can put any value defense you want.It does resolve half-level for attacks.
Now I believe if you place a AC value of 20 and your level 5,once you change the level to 6 and always remember to click save changes it will adjust AC accordingly but not sure.The same with skills,you need to click save in order to see the new adjusted changes.The thing is its so easy to level in 4e that you only have to change a few things,besides making a new power it should only take you a few minutes and your done.


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Kobold
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:28 am 
kyuss11 wrote:
Quote:
another question: is there another way I can put armor check penalty for skills other that adding it to the "misc" entry?


Armor in Rumble's is a straight forward value

Quote:
And also, why defenses does not lready include half level bonus in them?


Once again if your create a character say level 5,you can put any value defense you want.It does resolve half-level for attacks.
Now I believe if you place a AC value of 20 and your level 5,once you change the level to 6 and always remember to click save changes it will adjust AC accordingly but not sure.The same with skills,you need to click save in order to see the new adjusted changes.The thing is its so easy to level in 4e that you only have to change a few things,besides making a new power it should only take you a few minutes and your done.


ok thanks. Indeed, it works with skills, not with Defenses (you have to change them accordingly when you level up).


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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:56 pm 
The Skills values are derived properties which is why they scale with Level. They get their values from the "SkillsTrained" and "HalfLevel" properties. You can apply the same principle to defenses if you want. Just apply the formulae from pg 275 of the PH. For example, you can change the Fortitude property to:

{10+HalfLevel+max(Str, Con)}

My group doesn't use this technique because every time we level we just overwrite these values with Rumble's F5 function anyway.

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 Post subject: [Rumble 5.1.3]: Issue with Defence penalties stacking
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:24 pm 
Aahhh, I can't post a new topic in the D&D 4E FRAMEWORKS section, so am posting here in the hopes the restriction can be lifted, or someone can fix this issue...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We ran in to an interesting issue last session. There was a monster with an aura that did damage and applied a defence penalty of 2 each round. After 5 rounds, the tokens affected had a defence penalty of 10. The condition still stated 2, but the token’s actual defences seemed to be updated. Removing the state, brought the token back to the correct level, but this number should not stack, especially if from the same source.

Has anyone else had this issue? I’ll post the power details or the token if required.


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Cave Troll
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:13 pm 
Odd. That should have remained 2. Yeah, I would like to see how the power was created, and being applied.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:05 pm 
I'm curious about this
Quote:
There was a monster with an aura that did damage and applied a defense penalty of 2 each round

If the power doesn't stack than the applied penalty needs to end at the start of next turn,so when the power is applied it starts back from 0.
Then in initiative the player tokens that have been affected will have that condition removed.


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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:43 pm 
Hey Kyuss, were you able to get my aura code working with Rumble's initiative-tracking code? Needless to say it does not have this problem. Regardless, I would be interested to know your progress.

I agree it is probably a config error and that setting a duration to the start of the affected token's turn might help. However keep in mind the default rule is the effect lasts until the end of the affected creature's next turn unless stated otherwise. IOW even if you leave the creature's aura the penalty remains with you until the end of your next turn. Of course, the easiest solution is to just not run the aura power again until such time it takes effect again.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:46 am 
Longshot wrote:
Odd. That should have remained 2. Yeah, I would like to see how the power was created, and being applied.
Sorry for the delay. took me a while to get the token from the DM.

Well, the condition expiry is set for Special. I have stayed away from Special on my tokens after having issues with it, specifically with Reminders. Yes kyuss11's suggestion would work best in this situation as a workaround. No biggy really now that the issues is known. I stick with End of Encounter, or No Save for most auras, and look to the players to know what is affecting them and when they can remove their own conditions.

Anyone know when Special is appropriate to use, versus No Save?


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Dragon
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:47 pm 
How are you naming the macro? It has to be different as discussed here. Pains me to say I gotta side with Rumble this time since my framework does things the same way.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:17 pm 
StarMan wrote:
How are you naming the macro? It has to be different as discussed here. Pains me to say I gotta side with Rumble this time since my framework does things the same way.

It is the same power/macro from the same token...
DevoDog wrote:
Same named element don't stack. So if you have -2 DEFENSE PENALTY from "Stinky Residue" and are hit with another "Stinky Residue", you only have -2 DEFENSE PENALTY.
In conclusion, it is a small bug, with a good workaround provided by kyuss11.

It should not pain you to side with Rumble... He has done lots of great work, to the benefit of lots of people.

I am still interested to know when Special is appropriate to use, versus No Save...


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Giant
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:26 pm 
Ok,looks like I got some responding to do,lol
Quote:
Hey Kyuss, were you able to get my aura code working with Rumble's initiative-tracking code?

Well Starman I have not completely combined your code with Rumble's.I started to apply the aura's but in order to get every(Automated)aspect feature to work with Rumble's it would require ripping apart to blankets and then trying to resew them back together.I must say they are both great blankets,however the work didn't warrant the result. I found that player's didn't want a separate token to deal with for applying auras,power effects.It's easier to just create a aura and have the player's apply there power,effect and have Rumble's keep track of the initiative since it already does.The one great feature that Starman's framework would incorporate would be a automation on knowing the location of a target token in the aura or power as the round starts.Perhaps when I'm not so busy creating the ultimate 4e framework,I will get back to integrating that code to see if I can get you onTokenmove feature to apply.
The features that will be in the modified framework are,
1.Rumble's great framework with some tweaks and fixes,example: 2 different character sheets to use,high crit scaling correctly per tier,and a few others.
2.A collection of User addons that make any framework more enjoyable,example: The dicebox,whisper frame,Inventory system.etc.
3.A customizable calendar and new features added,like a temperature display with a random encounter check that applies to 4 tables,(day,night friendly and hostile)the calendar will also make the macro smart on knowing what encounter macro to select.I actually should update the calendar post with these new features.Just been busy with life.
4.A prestige point based,tracking system that applies in and out of combat bonuses for players that want to have a slight edge in combat while further customizing there character with permanent ability powers.The prestige token keeps track of player's token properties per tier.The points are awarded for players that respond to my Obsidian Portal calendar and show up to play,role playing,strategy,and several other fun ways to get points.
5.A market token that allows players to purchase items,services with gold and integrated quick trade feature with the inventory system.
6.Latest feature is a macro that can modify defense values with out changing the base value,example AC 20(+5) would be AC 25.Paladins have a power that can modify any player's defense of there choosing,so this has came in handy.
7.Will have soon a disease tracker that will allow creation of a disease and all the levels.The players that fail will contract the disease and then have the state and condition modified through Rumble's.
So as you can see,there is a lot going on,lol.


Quote:
Anyone know when Special is appropriate to use, versus No Save?

I believe that Rumble had a lot more that he was going to add or possibly created some features that were never implemented.For example he has token properties for Feats and Traits.However the Feats or the only thing you can add,but Traits have there own property line.I believe the same goes for special.One reason is it allows for importing with out errors.Second I think that with no save you have to manually remove it,and that its not a calculated state in the framework,for example Defender's Mark its just there as a reminder.A special save would still allow you to manually modify it,place some notes on it like condition is removed when....Also remember that Rumble's doesn't do every variable that 4e needs,lol.I don't think any framework could with maptools as is.I personally like some stuff for the GM and player's to remember to do on there own anyways.


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Giant
 
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:15 pm 
kyuss11 wrote:
Deadolus wrote:
Anyone know when Special is appropriate to use, versus No Save?

I believe that Rumble had a lot more that he was going to add or possibly created some features that were never implemented.For example he has token properties for Feats and Traits.However the Feats or the only thing you can add,but Traits have there own property line.I believe the same goes for special.One reason is it allows for importing with out errors.Second I think that with no save you have to manually remove it,and that its not a calculated state in the framework,for example Defender's Mark its just there as a reminder.A special save would still allow you to manually modify it,place some notes on it like condition is removed when....Also remember that Rumble's doesn't do every variable that 4e needs,lol.I don't think any framework could with maptools as is.I personally like some stuff for the GM and player's to remember to do on there own anyways.
OK, that makes sense. Thanks!


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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:40 am 
kyuss11 wrote:
...,however the work didn't warrant the result.


That is unfortunate ... but I did try to warn you it would be simpler to just drop Rumble's and use the MPB. I will answer more fully in my thread later as this forum is for Rumble and not me.

In any case, I applaud your efforts in adding your own features. At least we agree that Rumble's base features aren't sufficient for the needs of our respective groups. You need calendaring and inventory systems while we need XP tracking, auto-targeting, sustainable power support, automatic condition tracking, etc. I guess we differ in that you are building on his work whereas I advocate outright replacement as he himself does.

Best of luck to you and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we look forward to the results.

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