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Dragon
 
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:18 am
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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:41 am 
For those still having trouble with Stack Size errors in Windows 7 x64, do the following (it worked for me):

1. Remove ALL other installations of Java. Install Java 7 update 25 (64-bit).
2. Create a new file in the MapTool folder called "RUN THIS.bat"
3. Right click | Edit
4. Copy & paste the following:
Code:
set STACK=8M
set MAXMEM=1024M
set JAVA="C:\Program Files\java\jre7\bin\javaw"
set VERS=1.3.b89

start "MapTool" %JAVA% -Xmx%MAXMEM% -Xss%STACK% -jar maptool-%VERS%.jar run

5. Save it, and double-click "RUN THIS.bat"

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My D&D 4e Campaign FrameworkMy Shadowrun 4e Campaign Framework
RPGA#: 5223846427 — Skype: Veggiesama — Fear the ferret.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:41 pm 
Hey Veggiesama I appreciate the work you have done for a 5th edition framework. As I prepare to run Shadowrun 5th edition in a few weeks, I am trying to...

A. Learn the rules.
B. Prepare a framework to run combat, (Yes I will take most of what you have :-))
C. Find a paper rule book; I am so sick of trying to read off the #@%& pdf. Why does the book not become available till Sept 28? At least at my local gaming store.
D. Stop thinking in Shadowrun 3rd edition, the last edition, I ran. I do enjoy seeing a lot of the familiar names I remember from 3rd edition. LoneStar, Ares, and Dunzelkahn.

Anyway I made this quick macro to help my players remember how to handle recoil effects. I though you might be able to use it.
Code:
[h: fail=input(

"strength | 0 | Strength | text",
"gunrecoil | 0 | Recoil compensation of gun | text",
"bullets | 0 | Bullets to be fired | text"

)]

[h : recoil=1+(ceil(strength/3)) + gunrecoil]
[h : Pen = recoil - bullets]
[if (Pen >= 0), code:
{"There is no dice pool penalty"};
{ Your recoil penalty is {Pen} from your dice pool.}]


I have not fully tested it yet, but it seems to be working okay :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:56 am 
Okay I see you are taking care of recoil already....

Have you thought about maybe tracking more than one gun's ammo?


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:16 pm 
Feel free to borrow the framework and adapt it to your game. =P

Just added recoil tracking in the latest update. I'm still a little unclear with how it operates in certain cases. For instance, if I use Suppressive Fire and fire 20 bullets, I am supposed to ignore recoil for that attack. However, do I suffer at least a -19 recoil penalty on my next attack for having fired 20 bullets? (In the framework, right now, yes.) I asked Aaron a few questions here but I don't think he answered my questions fully.

Anyway, firing multiple guns results in stacked recoil, so that works. However, I don't track multiple guns' ammo. You could either add the totals together or use another token to represent the second gun. Or you could simply use a Token Note to set it manually.

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RPGA#: 5223846427 — Skype: Veggiesama — Fear the ferret.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:38 am 
Ok I appear to be doing something wrong or am not understanding something. When you use the ammo, it's suppose to keep track of recoil I assume. Well each time I test it, it just asks me what the recoil is aka what is the value it asks. I assume this isn't how it is suppose to work because each time after it asks again and just says value 0. So it doesn't appear to be keeping track.

I'm not sure what is preventing the library from working correctly. Nm forgot to set the campaign settings...duh.

For Suppressive Fire

It does not give recoil. You instead pre-roll your attack and then every time they trigger it they roll to dodge it Reaction + Edge, if they fail they get damaged. It's kind of an odd thing really, because a person could continue to do this every turn if they had the bullets with no recoil penalty. Makes the machine guns very dangerous. The only disadvantage is your locked down into an ARC similar to first and second edition SR. So all someone has to do is avoid that arc.


Last edited by Volomon on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:56 am 
Volomon wrote:
Ok I appear to be doing something wrong or am not understanding something. When you use the ammo, it's suppose to keep track of recoil I assume. Well each time I test it, it just asks me what the recoil is aka what is the value it asks. I assume this isn't how it is suppose to work because each time after it asks again and just says value 0. So it doesn't appear to be keeping track.

I'm not sure what is preventing the library from working correctly.

Are you working from a fresh campaign or did you try to upgrade a previous version? Working fresh should work, but to upgrade, you'll have to update the campaign properties and the library token. I didn't put links because I didn't want to complicate the process, but maybe I should.

Campaign properties: In the new campaign, go to Edit|Campaign Properties. In the bottom-left of that window, click Export. Save it. In the old campaign you intend to upgrade, do the same thing, but Import.

Volomon wrote:
For Suppressive Fire

It does not give recoil. You instead pre-roll your attack and then every time they trigger it they roll to dodge it Reaction + Edge, if they fail they get damaged. It's kind of an odd thing really, because a person could continue to do this every turn if they had the bullets with no recoil penalty. Makes the machine guns very dangerous. The only disadvantage is your locked down into an ARC similar to first and second edition SR. So all someone has to do is avoid that arc.

I understand that you could do suppressive fire 10x in a row, but on the 11th attack, if you switch to burst-fire mode, are you being hit with a huge recoil penalty for all the previous bullets fired, or does suppressive fire simply ignore the recoil rules and you get to start at 0 on your next attack? Similarly, if I fire my SS gun 3 times (suffering no recoil during those shots) then switch to full-auto mode on an off-hand weapon, do I start with -2 recoil penalty (plus the full-auto penalties) or start fresh? Book seemed unclear.

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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:33 pm 
As far as I'm aware the Suppressive Fire counts exactly the same as a SS. So there's no additional recoil for switching to something else. Firing an offhand weapon the same turn would incur all the usual penalties, the -2 for being offhand and dual firing both weapons would split the pool plus you would remove the extra dice for the recoil.

Basically I wouldn't attempt to fire a full auto + a suppressive fire. Fire Arms of 6 + 3 Agility: 9 would be -2 (offhand) then -5 for full auto (6 shot +1 free RC for first shot), would leave you with 2 dice to split between the two attacks. So when they go to resist that Suppression if you roll that one dice and get a hit they will hopefully beat it by rolling Reaction + Edge. Another Suppressive Fire after that would pick up the recoil from the previous round so now if you dropped your offhand weapon your still left with -5 recoil for your next Suppression. It wouldn't increase, but it also will not go down. You only add your RC when you're receiving additional recoil Although there is no recoil you are still firing a weapon and adding it's recoil each turn so 0 for each suppression. So you can only clear this magic recoil by doing what you normally would do for recoil.

It works, kind of odd but I guess it's ok. You would have to have some crazy skill and agility to pull off a Suppressive Fire and an Off Hand full auto.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:09 pm 
I noticed earlier in this thread you mentioned a stack size of 8 veggie. Is that what you normally use?


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:36 pm 
I use 8mb personally but you can probably get away with 2 or 4.

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RPGA#: 5223846427 — Skype: Veggiesama — Fear the ferret.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:22 am 
Some odd reason I've only recently noticed this. The condition system, as far as overflow goes, it doesn't really keep track of that damage. So say I'm 4 points into overflow, if someone heals a guy the system doesn't take into account this overflow damage. Not a huge deal but in a massive fight your ultimately whipping out a pen and paper to keep track when the fights become relatively large.

Just a minor request for sometime to allow for overflow boxes similar to Physical/Stun.

Had another thought is it at all possible, seems unlikely, to add in the limits for instance social limits to a roll so that it can't go above that number?


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:51 pm 
Hey Veggie, I noticed I am unable to save your library.SR4 token to my computer. Now I have done some serious mods to it. I have added a character sheet, spirit and drone tokens and character sheets for both of those. I have also added a rather larger GM screen. Since I am new to running 5th edition, I want to be able to find rules quickly. I also do not want to try looking thru the PDF I have to find answers.

Now when I go back to your original library.SR4 token I am unable to save it as well? Any thoughts? Here is the error message I get when I try to save it.


Untitled.png
Untitled.png [ 46.41 KiB | Viewed 2004 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:15 am 
Volomon wrote:
The condition system, as far as overflow goes, it doesn't really keep track of that damage.

You're right, it doesn't. You'll have to use Set Note to keep track of it. Might be something to add in a future version.

Volomon wrote:
Had another thought is it at all possible, seems unlikely, to add in the limits for instance social limits to a roll so that it can't go above that number?

I thought about whether to rewrite my dice roller to handle limits, but the idea butts up against my design philosophy. To do it properly I'd have to either 1) store limits on the character sheet somewhere, or 2) ask for a limit for each dice roll.

Method 1 seems easy enough, but if I store Physical, Social, and Mental limits, then I should probably have those values auto-calculated, which would mean I would have to store STR, LOG, WIL, Essence, etc. Then those auto-calculated fields might have modifiers, like from cyberware or adept powers, and so on. I guess it's a kind of slippery slope. I don't want players to have to redo their character sheets in MapTool. Also, there are weird limits like device rating, spell forces, etc. that would need Method 2 to work.

Method 2 would just over-complicate every roll. Players would have to stop and think before every roll what their limit is for that roll if they wish to "properly" use the framework. I just think that's unnecessary. When I play, practically speaking, I don't care about limits until AFTER I see my roll. If I roll 2 hits, 99/100 times I come in under the limit. If I roll 10 hits, sure; I'll check for the limit. Calculating the limit before each roll just seems like it would slow things down. My philosophy for the framework is that it should help reduce book-keeping and busy-work, not add to it.

(Also, storing the limit on each dice roll macro is possible, but what happens when your limit goes up by 1 after spending Karma? You'd have to go back through every macro and fix the value. In that case, it would be more proper to use Method 1, but I already went over why that's a bad idea).

All in all, to do limits properly would take a lot of work, and it seems like a waste of effort when my brain can just as easily look at the hits and say "They can't exceed my Physical limit, which is 5" and then mentally reduce the 7 hits to a 5. Thanks for the feedback, but rest assured, I've tried to think it through. =)

Bengalelf wrote:
Hey Veggie, I noticed I am unable to save your library.SR4 token to my computer. Now I have done some serious mods to it. I have added a character sheet, spirit and drone tokens and character sheets for both of those. I have also added a rather larger GM screen. Since I am new to running 5th edition, I want to be able to find rules quickly. I also do not want to try looking thru the PDF I have to find answers.

Now when I go back to your original library.SR4 token I am unable to save it as well? Any thoughts? Here is the error message I get when I try to save it.

Can't wait to see your work! An included GM screen sounds like a great idea.

Save the token as LibSR4 and not Lib:SR4. Windows doesn't like colons (snort). When you load it up, you'll have to rename it back to Lib:SR4.

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RPGA#: 5223846427 — Skype: Veggiesama — Fear the ferret.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:15 pm 
would you want me to post my work here or start a new thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:21 pm 
Go right ahead.

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RPGA#: 5223846427 — Skype: Veggiesama — Fear the ferret.


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 Post subject: Re: Veggiesama's Framework (Shadowrun 4th & 5th editions)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:39 pm 
Hey is my framework. Since my framework is better than 5mb, the max size the forums will allow to be added I decided to just send my library.mtprops and some tokens over. You will have to open MAptool and put my mtprops in and then bring the tokens I have sent over on the map you start.
Attachment:
library.mtprops [1.91 MiB]
Downloaded 145 times

Attachment:
Blank.rptok [119.62 KiB]
Downloaded 107 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Air.rptok [1.92 MiB]
Downloaded 84 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Beast.rptok [188.64 KiB]
Downloaded 87 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Earth.rptok [1.32 MiB]
Downloaded 84 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Fire.rptok [1.93 MiB]
Downloaded 79 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Man.rptok [86.41 KiB]
Downloaded 79 times

Attachment:
Spirit of Water.rptok [201.73 KiB]
Downloaded 79 times


I hope this works LOL
Here are some simple instructions on how to use what I have added to veggies stuff and how to use them

Some simple ideas for using the additions I added to Veggie’s framework. I love what Veggie has done, but I wanted more so I started adding and adding. I though other people might find some, if not all of what I have done useful as well. I started out using Maptool to run Champions 5th edition. I used Brad’s fifth edition frame work for that. Now that I have decided to run Shadowrun 5th edition I have found Veggie’s work. I should also mention and thank CoveredInFish and Wolph42 for their help when I got stuck on something. You can find these discussions under the Macro thread.
Creating a character:
Use the token called Blank; and open the campaign window. I would save the token somewhere on your computer first so you can use it again. Here are all the macros to create a new Shadowrunner. The Shadowrunner Cyberware Creation, Shadowrun Firearms Creation, Shadowrun Magic Creation, and Shadowrun Gear Creation are all windows with various options listed. These will show what gear, cyberware, and spells a character has on their character sheet. Just check the ones you have once the window is opened. These will be the only ones that show up on the character sheet.

Shadowrunner Creation is where a character’s Attributes, Skills and Qualities are entered. The Input Box Totals is where Physical, Stun, and Matrix damage tracks are entered. Very much like what Veggie did. It also has Edge entered here.
Contacts Input is where a runner’s contacts are entered. It will ask for a contact’s name, profession, connection rating, and loyalty rating of the contact. You can enter up to five contacts. All of these will appear on the second page of the character sheet.
Attributes Input is where a runner’s attributes are entered. I have added Street name, Real name, sex, metetype and lifestyle, all of these will appear on the character sheet. The macro also figures out physical, mental, and social limits and displays them on the character sheet as well as how much a character can lift and carry, and the distance they can walk and run.
Knowledge Skill Input allows for up to ten knowledge skills and their totals to be entered.
Language Skill Input allows for up to five different languages to be entered.
Qualities Input is where a runner’s qualities are entered. The first window is where positive qualities are entered; the second window is where all the negative ones are entered. Only checked qualities, like gear, cyberware, and spells will be listed on a character sheet.

Moving on to macros on the selection window, the player combat group is very similar to what Veggie had. These are the only macros I am going to allow the players to have access to.
Initiative adds a runner to the initiative window.
Block, Dodge, Hit the Dirt, Intercept, Parry subtracts 5 from the chosen token’s initiative.
Full Defense subtracts 10 from the chosen token’s initiative.
The group Player Macros…
Assign Gun Names this is where all the guns a runner carries can be tracked. Veggie only had a spot for tracking one gun’s ammo; I thought four would work better, because most Street Sams, seem to carry more than one gun. The Macro asks for a name for the first gun; it then asks for stats of the first gun. (While running for the first time I thought I could just refer to the firearms table for a gun’s stat, I decided it would be better for me the GM to have them on the character sheet. For example, if a runner has an Ares Predator V. I would write Ares Predator V under Name of gun, and list ACC5(7) DAM 8P AP-1 Mode SA under Stats. Do not use commas, Maptool will place everything after a comma the next line down and that might get a little confusing. Then the weapon’s ammo can be entered. I left pistol, Assault Rifle, Shotgun, and Submachine gun listed under the ammo to help remind you that they are related to that macro under the group weapons. If the Ares Predator is entered in the first group, then I would change the macro called Pistol under the Weapons group, title to Ares Predator V instead of Pistol. The same can be done for as many guns as the character has up to 4. The left over macros I would just delete.
Character sheet is where the selected token’s character can be accessed from.
GM Screen is where you can find my GM screen I will talk about that further down.

Spirit Tokens
I have included a token for all six spirit types. When a spirit is need just bring one on the board and open the Selection window.
Input Box Totals is just like for a runner. You enter their physical and stun box totals.
There is also a macro that names the spirit type and then says attribute-input, example under the Earth Spirit it says
Earth Spirit Attribute-Input (the water says Water Spirit Attribute-input as does all the spirit types say what they are first.) First it asks who summoned it. Then it asks for how many services, and then is it bound or not. On the spirit character sheet at the top it will say bound or not depending on what is checked. It then asks for the spirit’s force, initiative, and astral initiative.
Spend a Service just like edge; this tracks usage of spirit’s services. When they are all used up, I would delete the token.
Initiative adds the selected spirit to the initiative window

On the spirit character sheet it lists the attributes followed by the damage tracks that were entered. Then it has all the Unbound service descriptions listed and Bound services descriptions. Under the skill listing is also where any special powers the spirit type has; and option powers will show. For every three levels of a spirit a new random option power will show up. All the possible optional powers are listed on the Optional Power page for that spirit type.

Drone tokens
Work very much like character and spirit tokens, but I have created an addition character sheet for them since they have different stats than a character or a spirit.
Initiative adds the selected drone to the initiative window.
Attributes-Input is where the drone’s attributes are entered. First it asks for drone name; then goes through its stats. Then it asks if a weapon if one has been added to the drone. The next spot ask for any upgrades like addition hard points or the like.
Damage input this is where its damage track and how much ammo (If it has a weapon) it has is entered.
Fire Weapon Just like on a character, this is where a weapon placed on the drone is fired.
Autosoft Input If the drone has any autosoft programs this is where they would be entered.

Global Macros
This is where I have placed all the tokens I use as a gm during a game. It is nice because the players cannot see these so there is no fear of them messing with then during a game. They are all similar to what veggie has except...
Assign Reputation after a run here is where you can enter Street Cred, Notoriety, and Public Awareness for a character. Any amounts entered will show up on the character sheet.

GM Screen
Being new to fifth edition Shadowrun (I have played and run 3rd edition) I wanted an area where I can quickly access some major rules. This is why I have created a gm screen. It is still a work in progress, but here is what I have so far. Under runners tokens is a macro call GM Screen that will access the screen.

The first page has Combat, Firearms, and Magic listed across the top. Combat is the main page. Below the picture is a table with all combat actions listed. Below that it describes Action Phase and the different types of Interrupt actions.

COMBAT
Just above the Action Phase section is listed Main, Range Table, Edge, Environmental, and Surprise.
Main this is the page you are currently on
Range Table for now it has the range table listed there for all firearms. I added Bows, impact projectiles, and grenades at the bottom.
Edge This page describes how Edge is used and the different ways they can be used. I have a feeling my players will keep asking me how to use Edge. Hopefully this page will help stop some of that.
Environmental This page describes all the modifiers I could find. It has the Environmental Modifiers table, Environmental Compensation tables on it. It also describes the various gun modes.
Surprise This explains the rules for surprise.

FIREARMS
This page is a listing of all guns from the main rules with their stats listed in the table. I plan to add more guns as new supplements become available.

MAGIC
The main page, below the picture describes the rules for spellcasting. I though this page would help me because like I said above, I have not played or run 5th edition. Above the picture are the options Magic, Combat spells, Detection Spells, Health Spells, Illusion Spells, Manipulation Spells, and Adept Powers.
Magic is the main page which talks about Spellcasting. The other pages are descriptions of the various spells found in the main rule book; and adept powers describe the powers of adept.

I hope people find these useful.


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