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 Post subject: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:24 pm 
having seen the video of the Maptool Ipad app, is anyone working on an equivalent for android based tablets? Here in the UK the Advent Vega http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/10/14/advent-vega-review-budget-tablet-first-impressions/ is due to go on sale later this month, and it's looking pretty good. At £249 it's half the price of the Ipad, and it would be ideal to act as a maptool client. My understanding is that Android supports java so based on my non-existent knowledge of programming it should be easy enough to do (or am I being hopelessly naive)?

Is this just wishful thinking?

Si


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:56 pm 
Short answer: it may be possible.

Long answer: well, this is pretty long. :|

First, Android only officially supports JME: Java Micro Edition. Which means that a lot of the libraries that a typical application might expect won't be there. I don't know if any of those libraries are used by MT but I think it likely.

Second, MT uses third-party libraries which may also have dependencies on things not included in JME. As those libraries are for desktop systems I would consider this very likely. For example, one library is BareBonesBrowserLaunch (or something like that) and I have no idea if that would work properly on Android.

Third, Google created their own JME and didn't use the Sun/Oracle one. That has gotten them in hot water with Oracle. So we'll see how long Java lasts on Android. :(

Fourth, there will likely be screen size issues. Many of the graphics in MT are a particular size and do not automatically scale down on smaller screen resolutions. This is the way most applications work, but it means that there are minimum practical resolutions and lower resolutions may not be usable.

There may be others as well that I can't think of offhand. Someone will probably speak up if they know of other issues that I've forgotten. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:54 pm 
Wow, I sort of knew it might not be quite so straightforward. Out of curiosity, have you any idea how they managed to get it running on an iPad? I might as well say now that I may not understand the answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:36 pm 
I believe Craig said that it has been converted from Java to Objective-C. Some things had to be rewritten by hand once that was done. But you'd need to ask the author himself. He's dropped by here once or twice...


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:28 am 
Azhrei wrote:
I believe Craig said that it has been converted from Java to Objective-C. Some things had to be rewritten by hand once that was done. But you'd need to ask the author himself. He's dropped by here once or twice...


It is just a partial Objective C -- well I assume Objective C or C/C++ as Apple wasn't allowing stuff coded in other languages during a lot of the time it was being developed -- client for MapTool. From my short use of it, it crashed a lot on me, and was really slow when it wasn't, probably nothing to do with the author more likely the fact your iPad is quite a lot slower than your laptop/desktop :)

Some of the Android tablets coming out soon have much higher spec than the iPad but I would think they would still struggle unless you used the GPU on them to do most of the vision calculations.


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:09 am 
Soon Motorola's XOOM will be launched together with the new Tablet optimized Android 3.0 Honeycomb. Does this (potentially) bring any change of insight with it, that is, will it be possible to run (or to get running) JVM on this new combo?

I know the question is a bit vague, as this is entirely not my area of expertise, but I'm looking into buying a tablet and am waiting for the Xoom and ipad2 to surface. Obviously I am curious whether this would also potentially bring MT to one of those.

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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:52 am 
Quote:
Soon Motorola's XOOM will be launched together with the new Tablet optimized Android 3.0 Honeycomb. Does this (potentially) bring any change of insight with it, that is, will it be possible to run (or to get running) JVM on this new combo?

Doesn't change anything.

Android has a JVM. It is called Dalvik. That is what Java apps on Android run on. One of the big things missing is the Swing library so bye-bye MapTool gui.

The majority of the really cool games with nifty graphics you see running on Android are written either in part or whole using the native developer kit. That means assembly and C code.


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:03 am 
I feared so much, but thought it didn't hurt to ask. Petty. I think a tablet would be ideal for this.

thnx for the rep.

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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:27 am 
Phergus wrote:
Quote:
Soon Motorola's XOOM will be launched together with the new Tablet optimized Android 3.0 Honeycomb. Does this (potentially) bring any change of insight with it, that is, will it be possible to run (or to get running) JVM on this new combo?

Doesn't change anything.

Android has a JVM. It is called Dalvik. That is what Java apps on Android run on. One of the big things missing is the Swing library so bye-bye MapTool gui.


What he said. The underlying issue is MT 1.3 and previous were build to depend on the Swing/AWT libraries which just don't exist in java versions created for tablets and phones. Now, I can't guarantee anything AND the core dev team will not be doing another UI, BUT... it is possible(theoretically!!!) that once we break up the internal code in 1.4 using OSGi plug in models that someone could put a different UI on top and not have to chance the rest of the internals. Again, this is a theory, but we would have to be careful not to expose any UI stuff down into the "guts" that actually do the work. We may or may NOT get to that level of restructuring/refactoring in 1.4, but thats the plan. If it does get done in 1.4, it would also make it easier to deal with upgrading the JavaFX or any other UI toolkit down the road.

One other thing to consider is that tablets will generally have far less memory and computing power than a PC, so it's use in real life might be quite limited...

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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:54 am 
jfrazierjr wrote:
One other thing to consider is that tablets will generally have far less memory and computing power than a PC, so it's use in real life might be quite limited...
Yes I realize that. I wasn't planning to use it for heavy macro support, but it would be nice to have a portable on the table where user can look at.
Saying this I realize that such a thing might be able to accomplish icw a desktop pc somewhere and logmein... hmm. Maybe even on the same laptop...
Does anyone know whether its possible to create a dual screen setup on a laptop WITHOUT actually physically attaching a monitor?

Here's what Im thinking off (assuming its possible):
1. run two instances of MT on one laptop (server/player)
2. somehow set the laptop in dual screen mode and putting server in main screen and player in the other
3. run logmein on tablet and login on laptop
4. show 2nd screen (with player MT) of laptop on the tablet.
et voila. Wit logmein its even interactive, granted a bit slow, but the main purpose is visual map anyway.

The question is whether point 2 is possible and if so, how?

edit: it seems the same result is possible without the diff. setup: airdisplay

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DPI.
Frameworks: Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Only War, SET Card Game, RoboRally
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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:45 pm 
Yes, it seems possible, there are more solutions than that (eg I found maxivista).

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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:51 am 
Yes and idisplay. I've been reading some reviews and it seems that idisplay is crap and of the other two airdisplay is faster and has more functionality but is also more expensive.

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GETTING STARTED WITH MAPTOOLS - TUTORIALS, DOCS, VIDEOS, TOOLS, ETC

My stuff
Excel Tools: Table and Light editors
MT Tools: Bag of Tricks: Tools for Maptool, Dungeon Builder I, Dungeon Builder II,onMouseOverEvent and
DPI.
Frameworks: Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Only War, SET Card Game, RoboRally
Wiki: Debugging Tutorial, Speed Up Your Macros, Working With Two CODE Levels, Shortcut Keys, Avoiding Stack Overflow, READ THIS


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:27 am 
One other thing to keep in mind(assuming things have not changed in the past few months) is that Trevor is working for a company that does android developing and has been learning android. If/when Trevor comes back, he may decide to work on making an Android capable client(though perhaps with slimmed down features!) for Maptool. Of course, this is all conjecture at this point. Even if Trevor came back during 1.4 development, I highly doubt you would see an android client before 1.4 went gold and perhaps never....

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Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..


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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:06 am 
I have a functional remote desktop app, RDP Lite but that is not a screen sharer...

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 Post subject: Re: Android Tablets support
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:39 am 
Has anyone heard if the guy that switched his color Nook to Ubuntu was able to get java to work? If so then you'd be looking at a cheaper than XOOM alternative (but you'd have to dual boot a tablet o_O )

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