RPTools.net

So, I play with people FtF and have used a projector and am working on a top down rig. I will also be buying a new laptop in the near future and plane to have at least 16GB ram, and hopefully get up to 32 eventually. If possible, I want some type of software that can also have an IPad and optionally a linux client for players who do not wish to use Laptops(most of them) or do not have in order to move their own tokens and possibly do basic macros such as end my turn.

I would like to be able to host MapTool(Linux Mint 12) as well as one or more virtual machines also running linux of some flavor on which MapTool will run for the players. The players would then connect to the virtual server(s) using product X (which is where the advice comes in) using either IPad or Android tablets. I would need all FOSS solutions, so please keep that in mind. I had looked at TeamViewer, but it is limited to a singular "free" license so even though it works on all the target OSes, that solution is out for now. Currently, I know of 1-2 people who currently don't, but would not mind playing with a laptop for movement(one would "host" the projector) and 2 who have tablets who I could likely convince to use those as well as possibly share on a rotating basis for the others who don't have a tablet to make their token's movements.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions or provide any advice.

So the plan is to run multiple Linux VMs on top of a Linux host OS (Mint)?

Definitely use KVM (Kernel Virtual Machine) as it's much, MUCH more light-weight than the other solutions (VirtualBox, VMware, etc). I have no idea if Mint includes KVM support though.


So you want to run a GUI in those guest VMs and have the clients connect to it...

I don't think I'd go with full-fledged VMs, since that'll be a lot of overhead that you don't need. Instead, you can run an X server in a framebuffer configuration (i.e. RAM only, no physical display) and the players could connect to that instead. It's been a long time since I've used a framebuffer X server, so I'm sure the setup/configuration has changed. Essentially, the X server uses a RAM buffer (the FB) as the device and doesn't get the performance benefits of using hardware acceleration since there's no real hardware there. But that would have to be lighter than running a full OS in a guest VM.

Regarding the player equipment... iOS is not of much use to you because of Apple's death grip on the app marketplace (unless you jailbreak the device). If one of the TeamViewer-like apps were open source, it might be interesting to modify it to work with specifically with MT, but that wouldn't be a simple solution.

That means Android or WebOS; I think Android is the more logical choice (for a lot of reasons). In terms of specific equipment I can't help there as I haven't used any of it.

Good luck! And I've love to hear how it works out!

Well.. I see a number of IPad RDP/VNC type clients, so will check some of those out when I get a chance. Besides, Ipad is kind of a pre-requisuite for any solution since between us there are 3 IPads and only one Android tablet...

As for why I was thinking of Virtualbox was because I already know how to set up the OS part fairly easily, it would be "virtual NAT" part I would need to figure out..

Let me start by saying that Tablets have a place.... unfortunately, advanced remote desktop control... is not it. Don't get me wrong, it's not the tablet or software's I used fault, it's just a fundamental issue of different ways to interact with a tablet that make it non optimal. Some of the things worked fairly well.... I hit a huge road block when it came to moving tokens AND waypoints. The problem is that you doubletap to drag... no problem there... that part works ok. A bit of a pain to get the drop action to start, but whatever. The issue comes when you want to add a waypoint and call up the keyboard...well.. it's like it totally freaks the darn thing out and it has no clue what you are trying to do(ie, multiple inputs at a time bork it). For REALLY simple things, this would probably work ok. I might even still give it a try with a game and at the very least I am going to load multiple VM's and try with two connected deviced(IPad and remote computer.)

Set up:
Host Machine: Linux Mint 12
Ram 12 GB
Running MapTool as Server

Virtual Machine:
Linux Mint
12 GM "Image size"
1500 GB ram
Running MapTool as player client using Direct connect Host's internal IP address
Running TeamView server

IPad 2:
Running TeamViewer client over WiFi Lan

Good:
Other than some time spent, it was pretty darn simple to set up
Can see MapTool fairly well even on a smaller screen... would likely look much better on an IPad 3 with it's higher res screen.

Bad:
Multiple input at a time just does not "seem" to work, but perhaps I need to give it a bit more time....I have a bluetooth keyboard for the IPad, so might give that a try tonight just to see how it goes using both at the same time.



With the above said, I am not a huge fan of Tablets in the first place for doing any "real" work. Personally, I will read forum threads, but won't reply if it it's more than a short sentence or two as I just LOATHE typing on a tablet.. for me, it's just not natural feeling and quite frankly awkward... Hell.. I am fairly lazy, and I would actually get up and walk into the other room to the computer if what I had to say was important enough rather then type on the IPad and stay seated.

This is how I feel as well. Typing on them is just strange. However my kids can type very fluently on mine. I guess it is just they grew up on them. I normally just dictate to them and they type it out for me.

Why did you go with a VM and not just VNC? Also, maybe Synergy could work?

Well.... I don't know enough about VNC honestly. I don't need "just" remote desktop, I need a dedicated environment for input as well as remote desktop into that environment, if that make a difference. Theoretically, I could have 2-3 IPad users and I don't want to deal with them fighting over the same mouse or more importantly as the DM MY MOUSE!!

With that said, I am willing to learn if VNC can without much effort be used. Also, from what I have read, most IPad client software has some type of limitation without going with a free version on what you can accomplish (MochaVNC client for example can't easily deal with special keys such as CTRL, ALT, etc which might likely be important for MapTool use; unless you pay for their pro version which I won't do...)

Ok.. A bit more information...I was able to actually able to get waypoints to work durning a drag of the token, so...yeah! But can't figure out how to right click drag, so panning the map is a no go unless I can figure that out...

Also, it seems a pain to switch to the keyboard to zoom in/out since the "mouse wheel" seems intermittent, or perhaps it's just me... I can once in while have it to zoom WAY out by accident, but have yet get a zoom in to work with the "mouse wheel"... I might have to consider a custom MT build with some toolbar buttons to zoom +/- as well as a few quick presets....such as 100,150, and 200%....

I guess I can perhaps also do something for quick buttons to pan the map also...will have to think about that also..

Ok... so far, I managed to get two VM's running, each with TV and have my one IPad switch back and fort between the two VM's to manage tokens. It is a bit slow(but not horrible!), but not much I can really do about that. I have found two areas for which I will likely want/need to make a custom MT build to make it easier to deal with MT:

• Zooming(pinch to zoom does not translate the same as a mouse wheel turn since it deals with the TV screen size as opposed to passing the pinch action to the inner application....)
• Panning(right click drag is almost impossible on a tablet device as far as I can tell)

For Zooming, my plan is likely going to be to add additional toolbar buttons for quick zoom. So buttons like:

1:1, 2:1, 1:2 to stand for 100%, 200%, and 50% respectively... or something like that. In all likelihood, these toolbar buttons will remain constantly in via as opposed to the current model which has the tool bar switch buttons depending on the tool selected.... in this case, I will likely put them on the right side up against the globe icon.

For Panning, my thought here was to utilize the SE corner for to have a set of pan buttons(using the SE corner similar to how the drawing tools are in the NE corner, the statsheet is in the SW corner, and the "currently typing is in the NW corner). So something "LIKE"(I made this up REALLY, REALLY, quickly in GIMP):



with click moving one unit and double click moving 5 units. The center button will cycle between "your" owned tokens center(just like clicking on the token in the map explorer does). I might also do corner buttons which would move say 3 units in a diagonal direction.....<shrug>