New tablet called Surface from Microsoft

[rgwynnjr]

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

Has two versions

1) looks like a regular tablet with some extra features (Windows RT OS)
2) looks like a regular tablet, but runs Windows 8 Pro.

I like number 2 for full functionality.

[dorpond]

It will be an awesome year for me. I will be getting:

1. Surface - Intel Model - Need to run my existing apps.
2. Windows phone 8
3. Windows 8 upgrade.

I might sound like a fanboy, but to be honest, I am really getting tired of my Ipad (Gen1). Oh, it is a great unit, but it crashes about 5 times every day (app closes due to low memory error). Plus it doesn't fit into my work environment. Work is a MS shop - we have 8 MS servers, and everyone runs Office 2010. A windows tablet just makes more sense since it will interface with Active Directory and allow me full resources to the network.

Regarding the phone, something very odd happened to me a half year ago. As the IT Manager, I get to test phones from Verizon and at the time Verizon only sold one Windows phone. In all honesty, I didn't really care to test one, but I gave it a try anyway. The first couple days I was "eh", a week later I was "This is cool", 2-3 weeks later, I was "this thing rocks", and then the last day of my trial phone, I was like "please don't take this away from me!!!!". Really, I was very impressed with the 7.5 phone to the point where I waited to replace my android until win8 phones came out.

Windows 8 on the PC? Well, it is a bit odd to navigate in preview, but I got used to it. I have a hard time waiting for my win7 PC to boot and very much so welcome the snappiness of windows 8. 7 second boot time rules. Plus, I am the head of IT so it is important that I always use the latest and greatest, even if it sucks. Heh. I have to always be one step ahead of the users. I have a feeling that MS will make last minute changes in release to please as many as they can though. Plus I think they will reinvent the mouse too - actually I just read that they are implementing gestures into their mice line now for Win8. Buying Win8 upgrade is a no brainer though - what, 38 bucks or something? Even if it sucks really bad, what did I lose if I go back to Win7?

Anyway, enterprise forces me to be a Win8 guy, like it or not, but I happen to like where Windows is going. There are many reasons why I like the Surface design.

[rgwynnjr]

Owner of an IT Support Company, so same goes for me with keeping up on Microsoft OS for servers/workstations.

IPad is ok for reading PDFs and playing around, but no MapTool, DMGenie, etc. that you need a PC Operating System to run. Yeah, a laptop in tablet form is my wish too, but not going to get it until pricing comes down.

I have an IPhone for email since back then the only real choices where Blackberry or IPhone and IPhone was better IMO.

[Jagged]

Are you not worried that MS is talking about running a Jobsian style app store as the only way to get software? I hope the noises Valve are making is enough to scare them off.

I am an absolute convert to Windows 7, after refusing to touch XP or Vista. But Windows 8 I don't think I will be going any where near.

[dorpond]

Are you not worried that MS is talking about running a Jobsian style app store as the only way to get software? I hope the noises Valve are making is enough to scare them off.

There are a couple issues here:

First, windows pro devices will have metro and desktop. What that means to you is that metro will have an app store and desktop will have the traditional selling practices for software. For the desktop, Autocad will still be sold via subscriptions and they will still provide dvd's to install it. All your games, vent, dundjinni, photoshop, etc will still operate in desktop. Java will be installed here too and Maptool will run. Only metro will offer an app store to buy metro apps. In metro, java will not be possible, nor will photoshop, autocad, etc.

So when you say "only way to get software", that is a bit off mark.

As far as valve, I think the guy is premature at writing off Windows 8 by what is available in preview. He too must be confused on the fact that windows 8 pro will have metro and desktop. Desktop will function as normal. Make your games pal!

Listen, no way, no how is a touch OS of any kind going to fulfill the needs of every app out there. There will never be a full blown autocad for metro - they have way too many tools bars and users need the precision of a mouse. Same goes for photoshop as are other apps out there. That is why Microsoft is keeping desktop. They are brilliant if anything, because they recognize this need. They also give us the coolness of live tiles in a metro style, which appeals to the modern "smart phone" community out there who feel that they need constant social updates every second of the day. When in desktop, we can work; when in metro, we can fart around. Best of both worlds.

Will windows 8 be perfect? No, not at all, but I believe it is a great transition OS while the world figured out where touch is going. It is a great OS to allow old apps and new. It is a great OS to have and observe where app development heads - will large companies continue to make desktop apps or switch to metro exclusively? When MS makes all their observations, I am certain windows 9 will be more polished to revolve around the world that it will be at that point. Until then, we have a great hybrid!

Oh sheesh, maybe I am a fanboy...

[Jagged]

So when you say "only way to get software", that is a bit off mark.

That's good to know.

It will be interesting to compare MS store with Steam. I have to say I am not a fan of Steam, although I think it will be a good thing for it to appear on Linux.

[jfrazierjr]

In metro, java will not be possible, nor will photoshop, autocad, etc.

That's the sort of thing that bugs me to no end. "if you want to use our devices, you have to use our programming language" instead of working on a model of making your device work with the most popular programming languages.

[dorpond]

In metro, java will not be possible, nor will photoshop, autocad, etc.

That's the sort of thing that bugs me to no end. "if you want to use our devices, you have to use our programming language" instead of working on a model of making your device work with the most popular programming languages.

You bring up a good point, but then my mind has to ask, why is it that no tablet out there to date supports Java? You tell me, is there a reason why Apple, Google, and MS has not allowed full Java support? I would really, honestly, like to know that. Why do OS's who write tablets avoid Java?

My mind then drifts to: at least MS has allowed Java to be on their tablet when nobody else has. Perhaps MS isn't the enemy after all. To be able to use Maptool on a MS tablet is pretty huge if you ask me. Embrace MS instead of hating them.

[Jagged]

Why do OS's who write tablets avoid Java?

Money. Pure and simple.

Its not just tablets of course. Any producer of "computers" that can get away with configuring them slightly differently, will do so. Whether that's to allow them to charge you for internet access just because its a "console" or take a slice of all software revenue. Its protective practices and as consumers we shouldn't stand for it. MS are no longer the worst culprit but we shouldn't give them plaudits for that.

Rant over, sorry

[Craig]

In metro, java will not be possible, nor will photoshop, autocad, etc.

That's the sort of thing that bugs me to no end. "if you want to use our devices, you have to use our programming language" instead of working on a model of making your device work with the most popular programming languages.

You bring up a good point, but then my mind has to ask, why is it that no tablet out there to date supports Java? You tell me, is there a reason why Apple, Google, and MS has not allowed full Java support? I would really, honestly, like to know that. Why do OS's who write tablets avoid Java?

My mind then drifts to: at least MS has allowed Java to be on their tablet when nobody else has. Perhaps MS isn't the enemy after all. To be able to use Maptool on a MS tablet is pretty huge if you ask me. Embrace MS instead of hating them.

Apple doesn't allow it because they want to really control the phone, remember they didn't even want to allow people to develop native apps when the iphone came out, they also banned the flash -> native ios route for a while too.
Android, it runs most of java (you need to run a tool to convert the java byte code to davlik byte code but thats not a real issue), sure its missing swing, but swing is not a great GUI for touch, but thankfully it has a GUI, there are java ME jvms for android, but Google is not going to stop anyone (Oracle) from porting a full Swing + JVM to android.
Windows tablets? It will take someone to port java and I don't know if swing will be supported. WinRT same situation as Apple its all about control nothing else.

So here are my predictions
Since Oracle has a "native" app packager (which includes a private JRE in the package) with JavaFX 2.2 (JavaFX 2.2 also supports multitouch) and they have displayed demos of JavaFX apps
running on some tablets (Android and iPad) they will probably do the same thing for tablets. Then its up to the tablet manufacturers as to if they allow such apps or not (size is not going to
be that much an issue the cut down JRE runs at about 50meg, not tiny but not huge for a tablet app as long as you download on wifi).
So what are the chances your tablet will runin Java/JavaFX?

Android - I don't think there will be an issue here at all.
Windows 8 Pro - No issues
iPad - Hard to predict, Apples enforcement of their app approval process is so inconsistant.
WinRt - This is also hard to predict, but MS might see it as yet another chance to kill off Java something they have tried to do many times very unsuccessfully, or they might just ban it for control reasons, or they may even allow it, the metro app store is still an unknown. But there is nothing in Microsofts past practices that would suggest they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Craig]

So here are my predictions
So what are the chances your tablet will runin Java/JavaFX?

WinRt - This is also hard to predict, but MS might see it as yet another chance to kill off Java something they have tried to do many times very unsuccessfully, or they might just ban it for control reasons, or they may even allow it, the metro app store is still an unknown. But there is nothing in Microsofts past practices that would suggest they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

So after having given the matter more thought I am going to say WinRT is very unlikely. The reason I say this is Microsoft has already come out and said no other browser other than IE will be allowed to run in WinRT tablets, since JavaFX includes a webkit control it essentially has its own non IE browser built it.

[rgwynnjr]

IMO

Surface Tablet running Windows RT = similar to an IPad and not worth it for me.

I would get a cheaper tablet for reading Internet, PDFs, etc. content. I could care less about apps that have nothing to do with reading said content that I am interested in.


Surface Tablet running full Windows, powerful enough, and for a good price =

Otherwise I will stick with a normal laptop.

[Azhrei]

Surface Tablet running full Windows, powerful enough, and for a good price =

+1

MS will have to subsidize the cost of the hardware in order to sell the units -- Apple has that pretty much sewn up (whether you think they deserve it is another matter).

So... I predict a bunch of Linux geeks will grab the hardware and build a Linux port. When Linux is available for it, then I'll consider getting one.

I prefer not to voluntarily participate in a monopoly if I can avoid it (I can't always avoid it: the local power company is a good example). As dorpond says, he can't avoid the MS monopoly because of work constraints. But for my business, I control the constraints. I don't mind working on a wide variety of platforms, but I don't do Windows. (If I can avoid it, and I usually can.)

On a separate but related topic:

I called Moen today to see about some replacement parts for my kitchen faucet. Turns out they have a life time warranty, so they're shipping the hose I need for free (no cost, no S&H). The fellow on the other end asked if there was anything else he could help with, so... I told him the faucet handles in the MBR bathroom were a little grungy. He's sending out new ones at no cost. And that sink with the stopper that doesn't seem to close all the way? He's sending out a new stopper and the mechanism behind the sink that controls the stopper's movement. At no cost.

I've dealt with them once before to purchase a tool to make taking apart the sink easier and they were nice enough then. But this attitude of, "What do you need? ... Okay, I'll send you a new one." is going to have me buying nothing but Moen from now on. (I haven't told my wife that I found out they have a program for replacing an existing fixture under warranty with a brand new unit for a few dollars. It would be more work for me though and who needs that? )

Don't you wish hardware/software had the same level of support?

[Vhex]

To be fair, Microsoft's support is pretty top notch. We get level 3 support without being charged for any cases on an operating system that's still supported (12 years is a long time to support an Operating System or any piece of software). As a business, any emergency issue is free. You could say that's not the same as lifetime support, but imagine trying to support Maptool 1.0 forever.

Also, there's a difference between monopoly and antitrust. Microsoft does not have a monopoly (if they did you wouldn't be able to install Linux on anything), but they are in antitrust suits for their anti-competitive practices. But I suspect that discussion is for another thread.

[JamzTheMan]

Ok, so almost a year later and it's here!

I'm on a waiting list for mine now and now looking to see how I can enable MultiTouch gestures in maptools! Any decent libraries to plug in or anything?

It would even be helpful on my Android Xoom since I use it to remote desktop into a Win8 environment as well.