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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:40 pm 
Buy a copy of Norton Ghost make a complete back up copy of your hard drive to an external usb Hard drive install the new solid state drive and then image the new drive. Perfectly Legal for your own machine.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 am 
darkeness66 wrote:
My new laptop has Win8 and I am not a fan, I much prefer Win7.

My 2 cents, YMV


Give "classic shell" a try. It really helps with much of the win8 hurt!

http://classicshell.net/

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:03 am 
badsequel wrote:
darkeness66 wrote:
My new laptop has Win8 and I am not a fan, I much prefer Win7.

My 2 cents, YMV


Give "classic shell" a try. It really helps with much of the win8 hurt!

http://classicshell.net/


Yeah I just got a new laptop, that came with 8, two days ago. After fighting with the stupid start screen, and the inability to just shut off your darn computer without running through 42 different steps, I installed Classic Shell and I'm happy again. Other than the start screen (and the stupid windows apps I never use) I really see no difference between 7 and 8. NOT worth an upgrade in my opinion.

EDIT::
Uh, yeah, is there a way to turn off censoring? I can't seem to find an option for that in my control panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:03 am 
Censoring?

How do you mean? In Internet Explorer?

-bad

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:04 pm 
VisElEchNon wrote:
After fighting with the stupid start screen, and the inability to just shut off your darn computer without running through 42 different steps

Mouse mouse to right hand corner. Click Settings>Power>Shutdown. Pretty short mouse movement and quick after you do it a couple times.

You can even put a one-click Power button in the start window if you didn't want to use the pop-out.

Quote:
(and the stupid windows apps I never use)

You know, I didn't think I'd like them much either, but I've found that some are quite nice. The business/stock app is nice to get a quick snapshot of how your stocks are doing and get targeted news on ones you follow. The sports app is really nice once you put in your favorite teams/sports. The Map app is quick and has a really nice zoom (though, as I recall, it doesn't have the good diving directions that Bing and Google maps have.) And if you use Dropbox, the Skydrive implementation in Win8 is great (superior even.) I don't really use the messaging, social, and email aps... but you can just delete the stuff you don't and free up some space and pin the programs that you use most (which for most people is less than 10) on the Start Window and it makes getting in a launching stuff quite quick (faster than you probably ever did from your desktop.) And with the News, Business, Weather, and Sports apps right there with a single click I can often do some quick content consumption without even having to launch into a browser.


It's funny how few shortcuts people have bothered to learn in Win8. Like do you know that from the Start Window if you're looking for something you can just start typing what you're looking for and it will start dynamically searching for it? You don't have to pull up or click in a search box, just start typing.

For example, say you are looking for the calculator (something I always had to dig into Win7's for), just start typing. The minute you press "C" it switches to the application search window and has a list of application that start with "C". Calculator is the default top one with Calendar and Control Panel coming next. Then you just click on what you want. The further you type, the search list narrows automatically, so by the time you've hit "CALC" it's the only thing there.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:01 pm 
Considering that the special upgrade pricing for Win8 expires in 8 days, if you can get it for $15 you should. Upgrades of Win8 Pro go from $40 to $200 starting Feb 1st. (Google for the pricing and you'll find pages that describe the new pricing for each version of Win8.)

Bone White wrote:
Owning a key does not entitle you to modify or use a modified version of the software.

Valid for the U.S. but badsequel is from Norway where the laws are different. And many EU countries have more permissive copyright laws regarding what we would call "fair use".


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:37 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
Mouse mouse to right hand corner. Click Settings>Power>Shutdown. Pretty short mouse movement and quick after you do it a couple times.

You can even put a one-click Power button in the start window if you didn't want to use the pop-out.

With a start button I just move to the lower left corner. Click button>click shutdown. A single click less than what you've described. :P On top of that, I never figured out that "Settings" is where I needed to go to shut down my computer. :?

As for the Start Window... I don't ever go to it now that I have it completely bypassed.

Full Bleed wrote:
You know, I didn't think I'd like them much either, but I've found that some are quite nice. The business/stock app is nice to get a quick snapshot of how your stocks are doing and get targeted news on ones you follow. The sports app is really nice once you put in your favorite teams/sports. The Map app is quick and has a really nice zoom (though, as I recall, it doesn't have the good diving directions that Bing and Google maps have.) And if you use Dropbox, the Skydrive implementation in Win8 is great (superior even.) I don't really use the messaging, social, and email aps... but you can just delete the stuff you don't and free up some space and pin the programs that you use most (which for most people is less than 10) on the Start Window and it makes getting in a launching stuff quite quick (faster than you probably ever did from your desktop.) And with the News, Business, Weather, and Sports apps right there with a single click I can often do some quick content consumption without even having to launch into a browser.

That's all cool and all but I use my computer to multitask; apps take up the whole screen and the only ways to close them (that I've found) are Alt+F4 or the very finicky swipe gestures on the laptop's touch-pad. Then, if I want to get back into the task, I have to wait for it to boot up again. I use "apps" on a tablet and "applications" on a computer (yes, I know how stupid it sounds to make that distinction, but they behave differently so they're different classifications.)

Full Bleed wrote:
It's funny how few shortcuts people have bothered to learn in Win8. Like do you know that from the Start Window if you're looking for something you can just start typing what you're looking for and it will start dynamically searching for it? You don't have to pull up or click in a search box, just start typing.

For example, say you are looking for the calculator (something I always had to dig into Win7's for), just start typing. The minute you press "C" it switches to the application search window and has a list of application that start with "C". Calculator is the default top one with Calendar and Control Panel coming next. Then you just click on what you want. The further you type, the search list narrows automatically, so by the time you've hit "CALC" it's the only thing there.

Yeah, I actually did know that, and using the Windows Key+S combination I'm able to go to the start screen if I want to do a search, but what if you don't know the exact name of what you're looking for? Let's say I'm looking for something called "Dinglehopper" that was published by "Joe's Apps." I know the program as "Dinglehopper" but Windows stored it as "Joe's Apps - Dinglehopper" (and it does this quite a bit even in 7.) In that case, typing the full "Dinglehopper" word still won't bring it up, because Windows expects "J" as the first letter not "D".

I know I'm being nitpicky here, but the fact of the matter is: I want full control of my machine. It's MY property, not Microsoft's. I should be able to figure everything out within a couple hours when I switch to a new OS even one that's been as overhauled as 8 has. I've had 12 years to get used to the start button. The start screen is new, I don't know all the ins and outs yet; that's to be expected and is perfectly okay. However, they should explain everything a HELL of a lot better than a simple "move your mouse to here or here to access the start screen" pop-up and then leave me to sink or swim.

I'm not going to say 8 is unusable or anything, it's not even all that bad. However, the portions of the OS that are tailored to a tablet, get in the way when I want to use my laptop or desktop AS a laptop or desktop and not as a tablet.


badsequel wrote:
Censoring?

How do you mean? In Internet Explorer?

-bad


I wrote "d a m n" and the board switched it to "darn" when I look at the message. I don't care if it censors it for everyone else but I personally have zero issues with "vulgar" language so I prefer to see exactly what people wrote. EDIT:: NO not in Internet Exploder. I'm using FireFox.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:35 pm 
VisElEchNon wrote:
That's all cool and all but I use my computer to multitask; apps take up the whole screen and the only ways to close them (that I've found) are Alt+F4 or the very finicky swipe gestures on the laptop's touch-pad. Then, if I want to get back into the task, I have to wait for it to boot up again. I use "apps" on a tablet and "applications" on a computer (yes, I know how stupid it sounds to make that distinction, but they behave differently so they're different classifications.)

Hmmm, yeah, I think you're missing some of how Win8 works. When you pop an app you can leave it running in the background by just moving your mouse into the bottom left hand corner and dropping back to the Start Window. Then you can open more apps from there (i.e. multitask your apps.) When you put the mouse in the top left corner you'll see all the apps you have running and you can switch between them. Right click on them and you can close them from the thumbnails or left click to go back into them.

As far as I can tell, you can only have two apps on screen at once though (one snapped to the right or left running in a smaller view)... but you can still be swapping out to other apps as explained above without having to close anything down. I'm not sure how this all plays out in multi-monitor setups as I haven't tried it yet.

The applications you're multitasking on your Desktop are a slightly different thing, of course (at least until they are updated to support the Start Window, which I'm sure is coming) ... but you can drop to the Desktop from the same upper left navigation... and back to any apps running on Start as well.

So, in short, there really is no barrier to multitasking apps and/or applications once you get comfortable using the corner navigation. I have tons of things open and accessible all the time.

Quote:
Yeah, I actually did know that, and using the Windows Key+S combination I'm able to go to the start screen if I want to do a search, but what if you don't know the exact name of what you're looking for? Let's say I'm looking for something called "Dinglehopper" that was published by "Joe's Apps." I know the program as "Dinglehopper" but Windows stored it as "Joe's Apps - Dinglehopper" (and it does this quite a bit even in 7.) In that case, typing the full "Dinglehopper" word still won't bring it up, because Windows expects "J" as the first letter not "D".

Not my experience.

I type "pan" and I see "Control Panel" in the list.

I type "pro" and I see "Newsbin Pro 64" (a desktop application) pop up in the Start Window search.

And it's pretty much instantaneous. I don't know how it could be much better, short of reading my mind. ;)

EDIT: Btw, if you absolutely don't know the name of an app, just move the mouse to the bottom of the Start Window and right click, then select "All Apps." You'll get a pretty scrollable window with every app and application installed on your computer. Easy to launch directly from there as well.

Quote:
I know I'm being nitpicky here, but the fact of the matter is: I want full control of my machine. It's MY property, not Microsoft's. I should be able to figure everything out within a couple hours when I switch to a new OS even one that's been as overhauled as 8 has. I've had 12 years to get used to the start button. The start screen is new, I don't know all the ins and outs yet; that's to be expected and is perfectly okay. However, they should explain everything a HELL of a lot better than a simple "move your mouse to here or here to access the start screen" pop-up and then leave me to sink or swim.

I agree that not having a series of fun tutorials built into Win8 is a mistake on their part. darn near negligent given the changes. Heck, I'm still learning tons of things, and I'm sure that what I don't know is quite substantial. But I'm just saying that once a few key aspects are discovered I'm finding things more easily and organizing things more logically (with a traditional mouse and keyboard, not a touch screen.) And, behind it all is access to my old desktop with a single click (and, granted, until more applications I use are built to take advantage of the Start Window, I'm still on the Desktop a lot.)

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:47 pm 
VisElEchNon wrote:
I wrote "d a m n" and the board switched it to "darn" when I look at the message. I don't care if it censors it for everyone else but I personally have zero issues with "vulgar" language so I prefer to see exactly what people wrote. EDIT:: NO not in Internet Exploder. I'm using FireFox.


That's not a Win8 thing, that's an RPTools thing. Az has a language filter in place to keep things clean around here. And as anyone who has tried to do anything with MTscript knows, that's probably a good thing! ;)

As far as I know, the language filter isn't optional.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:06 pm 
lol No, I didn't think the filtering was from Win 8. I was just hoping I could turn the filter off for my view.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:33 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
Hmmm, yeah, I think you're missing some of how Win8 works. When you pop an app you can leave it running in the background by just moving your mouse into the bottom left hand corner and dropping back to the Start Window. Then you can open more apps from there (i.e. multitask your apps.) When you put the mouse in the top left corner you'll see all the apps you have running and you can switch between them. Right click on them and you can close them from the thumbnails or left click to go back into them.

As far as I can tell, you can only have two apps on screen at once though (one snapped to the right or left running in a smaller view)... but you can still be swapping out to other apps as explained above without having to close anything down. I'm not sure how this all plays out in multi-monitor setups as I haven't tried it yet.

The applications you're multitasking on your Desktop are a slightly different thing, of course (at least until they are updated to support the Start Window, which I'm sure is coming) ... but you can drop to the Desktop from the same upper left navigation... and back to any apps running on Start as well.

So, in short, there really is no barrier to multitasking apps and/or applications once you get comfortable using the corner navigation. I have tons of things open and accessible all the time.

Well that definitely makes it better. But yeah, as you said above (or below, not sure where that would be located in a response that also quotes the original message :?), I'd need to see a lot more apps of programs that I use before I'd be willing to spend any real time on the start screen. One other problem I have with the start screen (that I didn't mention before because it's purely an aesthetic thing) is that I think it's ugly as sin. :)

Full Bleed wrote:
Not my experience.

I type "pan" and I see "Control Panel" in the list.

I type "pro" and I see "Newsbin Pro 64" (a desktop application) pop up in the Start Window search.

And it's pretty much instantaneous. I don't know how it could be much better, short of reading my mind. ;)

EDIT: Btw, if you absolutely don't know the name of an app, just move the mouse to the bottom of the Start Window and right click, then select "All Apps." You'll get a pretty scrollable window with every app and application installed on your computer. Easy to launch directly from there as well.

Hm. Yeah I looked into the partial title thing and you're right. If you misspell something or don't actually know at least one word in the title you'd need the "all apps" option. It's not too bad to scroll through at least.

Full Bleed wrote:
I agree that not having a series of fun tutorials built into Win8 is a mistake on their part. darn near negligent given the changes. Heck, I'm still learning tons of things, and I'm sure that what I don't know is quite substantial. But I'm just saying that once a few key aspects are discovered I'm finding things more easily and organizing things more logically (with a traditional mouse and keyboard, not a touch screen.) And, behind it all is access to my old desktop with a single click (and, granted, until more applications I use are built to take advantage of the Start Window, I'm still on the Desktop a lot.)

I may get used to the corner thing eventually (I'll have to actually, because MS has flat out said the start button is gone for good) but right now I kinda need something less "revolutionary" so that I can get my work done. Trying to figure out the idiosyncrasies of a new OS while try to maintain productivity is not really possible. :(

Anyway, I still have to explore the OS a lot more because 2 days isn't enough time for a thorough analysis, but I've never had the issues getting into an OS like this before. I'm hoping that I just don't remember the Start button being such a big change and this will all get to feeling "normal".


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:44 am 
VisElEchNon wrote:
One other problem I have with the start screen (that I didn't mention before because it's purely an aesthetic thing) is that I think it's ugly as sin. :)

Well I guess that's a matter of taste. I like it. I'm not sure what sort of skins they have out there... but the default suits me ok for now. I know some companies are doing some cool things with the live tiles, too. I see a lot of promise there.

Quote:
Anyway, I still have to explore the OS a lot more because 2 days isn't enough time for a thorough analysis, but I've never had the issues getting into an OS like this before. I'm hoping that I just don't remember the Start button being such a big change and this will all get to feeling "normal".

I recognize that Win8 just seems to cater to how I used Win7. That is, I always hid my taskbar and I didn't like to use the start menu to find or organize things. I found it tedious to drill through tiny folder icons in the start menu so I kept away from it unless I had to use it. As a result, I usually had about 150+ icons on my desktop. I really don't need to do that with Win8 as things hide better and I can get to them fast even when they are out of sight.

Another quick tip in Win8, go to the lower left hand corner and right click to pull up access to a lot of system stuff.

For example, in Win7 getting to Disk Manager sucks:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/ ... dows-7.htm

In Win 8, put the mouse in the lower left hand corner, right click and there is access to Disk Management. Much nicer.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:53 am 
Also, all of the windows 7 keyboard shortcuts work. I mentioned I was a keyboard person... I get to the calculator with:
[Windows Key]+R (type) calc

Well, technically [Command] since I'm on a mac.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:18 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
For example, say you are looking for the calculator (something I always had to dig into Win7's for), just start typing. The minute you press "C" it switches to the application search window and has a list of application that start with "C". Calculator is the default top one with Calendar and Control Panel coming next. Then you just click on what you want. The further you type, the search list narrows automatically, so by the time you've hit "CALC" it's the only thing there.

That sounds like how I start calculator in Windows 7. And XP for that matter. In XP you just had to go to start>run. Win7 just start.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I Upgrade to Windows 8
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:38 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
For example, in Win7 getting to Disk Manager sucks:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/ ... dows-7.htm

Actually, the way I do it is Start | right-click Computer | Manage | Disk Management :)

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