Using a skill check to find a hidden forest trail in D&D 3.5

[Deadjedi]

One of my players has a part of a quest he's going on where he has to find a hidden forest trail. The character in question is a 5th level Wood Elf Druid so the Find The path spell is out of the equation and Know Direction couldn't be used because all that would do is allow him to know which direction is north. So, a skill check seems to be the only way to go in solving this problem.

But, what I'm wondering is what skill check I should have him make to find said trail? Would it be a Search check in combination with a Track or Survival or just a Search check flat out or all three?

Also, what would the DC be I'm thinking somewhere between 20-30?

[aliasmask]

Survival helps you not get lost in a forest. Knowledge Geography can help you read the terrain in general, but it would come down to a search check to recognize the hidden path once you're near it. I would say use survival to get yourself in the right area with a synergy bonus if you have geography. Once you make a good enough survival check (once per hour) then make the search check. I would say survival 25 and a search 15. What I have done in the past is draw out the actual path and ask the player which direction they wish to go and when they come close to it allow the search check.

[Deadjedi]

Would I have to use Knowledge (geography)? Could I use Knowledge (nature) instead or just have the player take 10 on the Geography roll if he has no rank in it?

[aliasmask]

Would I have to use Knowledge (geography)? Could I use Knowledge (nature) instead or just have the player take 10 on the Geography roll if he has no rank in it?

In my scenario, it's just an adder to the survival check. So, if they don't have it, then no +2 bonus. Also, how is the path hidden? By natural features like behind a water fall, through narrow pass, behind some foliage or is it just an unmarked path?

The survival skill just allows you to set up a search area and search will allow you to find it.

[Deadjedi]

It's an unmarked path behind thick foliage and is located in the Misty Forest just southeast of Daggerford. That's where the character lives, he's a 5th level Wood Elf Druid who's being initiated into the Order Of The Verdant Grove and the first part of the initiation has him assembling a staff but to gather what he needs to create the staff he has to find a hidden region in the forest that only his people are allowed to enter.

At least that was the initial plan but I've changed the story up a bit and now the reason he has to find it is because one of the other Druids in his village has a vision of the region the hidden path leads to being infected by the Blight and he and the other players have to travel there to find the source of the Blight.

[aliasmask]

Yeah, I would make it a fairly high roll for survival, at least 25. Knowledge nature would give +2 to roll. The search 15 when near it. I would reduce the survival check if the druid used speak with animals to help him locate entrance reducing the survival check to 15.

[Full Bleed]

My solution to "difficult" skill/DC scenarios: Don't rely on the skill/DC mechanic.

Take the opportunity to role play the scenario. Since it's a Druid, maybe have him spot a snake that turns out to be an ex-familiar who maintains some heightened intelligence imparted to it from its previous master. During their course of their conversation, the snake implies that it can tell the druid where the path is if he can get rid of particularly nasty tree frog that has an almost unnatural taste for snakes.

Have the druid take on a dire tree frog perched in a tree, surrounded by a pond infested with large piranha-like tadpoles (dire tadpoles), and then let the snake tell him where the path is.

Now you don't have the meta game the rolls (which, lets face it, the player has to make to keep the adventure going anyway) and you've got a potential recurring NPC that could prove very interesting over time.


PS: It's not that I don't like Alias' solution, it's just that I think skills can sometimes take the adventure out of games, and when they get convoluted like in this situation, it's best to just step back and get back to letting the players actions (instead of skill rolls) decide the fate of the game.

[Deadjedi]

My solution to "difficult" skill/DC scenarios: Don't rely on the skill/DC mechanic.

Take the opportunity to role play the scenario. Since it's a Druid, maybe have him spot a snake that turns out to be an ex-familiar who maintains some heightened intelligence imparted to it from its previous master. During their course of their conversation, the snake implies that it can tell the druid where the path is if he can get rid of particularly nasty tree frog that has an almost unnatural taste for snakes.

Have the druid take on a dire tree frog perched in a tree, surrounded by a pond infested with large piranha-like tadpoles (dire tadpoles), and then let the snake tell him where the path is.

Now you don't have the meta game the rolls (which, lets face it, the player has to make to keep the adventure going anyway) and you've got a potential recurring NPC that could prove very interesting over time.


PS: It's not that I don't like Alias' solution, it's just that I think skills can sometimes take the adventure out of games, and when they get convoluted like in this situation, it's best to just step back and get back to letting the players actions (instead of skill rolls) decide the fate of the game.

Yeah, I would make it a fairly high roll for survival, at least 25. Knowledge nature would give +2 to roll. The search 15 when near it. I would reduce the survival check if the druid used speak with animals to help him locate entrance reducing the survival check to 15.

Both of these are good ideas and I already have something written up in the story that's similar to the snake idea only it involves the plants and animals in the forest being infected with Blight so I could work that idea into the snake thing as well as use the ideas Alias proposed.

[Jan van Leyden]

It would be a strange forest if there's only one track/trail. I'd have the player role any appropriate skill and introduce problems and/or encounters based on the result.

On a 1 the character mistook the trail of a dangerous forest denizen as the one he has looked for.

On a critical he found the correct trail and can follow it without problems.

Any result inbetween could mean a minor encounter, a problem in need of solving and so on.

The character should find the trail in the end, regardless of the die roll. Success at a quest shouldn't be based on a die roll.

Huldvoll winkend

---Jan van Leyden

[Deadjedi]

Yea it would be a really strange forest is there were only one trail but in this case the player is looking for one specific trail that leads to a specific place in the Misty Forest so not only do I have to account for the multitude of trails that the player could end up on I also have to add in the weather factor because it's always foggy/misty in this forest and the chances of getting lost are somewhat more elevated then normal.

Not only that but in the story I've written the lands surrounding the forest as well as the forest itself has been infected with the Blight so a number of the creatures as well as plants in the forest all have the Blightspawned template added to them so that just raises the bar even further in terms of danger.

Either way die roll or no die roll the player/players will eventually find what they're looking for of course, I'm just at a stalemate as to what happens before they do.