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 Post subject: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:35 pm 
I wanted to download some of the basic windows 10 games like minesweeper, so I had to update my microsoft account which is also the one I use for xbox. So, after changing the password it changed my windows account name and password as well. So annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:25 pm 
Has Microsoft done anything in the last year that hasn't made you want to punch them in the face?


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:30 pm 
aliasmask wrote:
I wanted to download some of the basic windows 10 games like minesweeper, so I had to update my microsoft account which is also the one I use for xbox. So, after changing the password it changed my windows account name and password as well. So annoying.

It sounds like you needed to create a Window 10 "local account" when installing.

It used to be obvious... but, last I checked, you have to actually fail entering your account info properly to get a "Continue without Microsoft Account" option which will then create a Local (un-linked) account. Note, you may lose some inter-connectivity that you're used to (or would like to) have though.

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:46 pm 
I didn't see/notice the option for "continue without". The main thing I notice is my password changed when I did a restart. I think linking an online password with your system computer is generally a bad idea though. Seems like it would be more vulnerable to hacking from getting your password stolen online which these days seems more common place with the big companies.

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:18 pm 
Windows 8 and 10 can't access the Microsoft app store with a local account, for reasons that appear to start and end with "we want to track everything you do, all the time, because it's more profitable to sell that info to advertisers than it is to sell software to you."

I do note, however, that the "connected to the internet" account doesn't necessarily have to be with Microsoft (at least on Windows [8]). I've never had a problem accessing the app store with a Windows account connected to Gmail. Though I've never bought anything there, only downloaded free stuff. But it's given me the option to set up a credit card directly.

(Why did the number eight keep turning into a smiley? And only the second one, not the first. Sigh.)


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:12 am 
taustinoc wrote:
Windows 8 and 10 can't access the Microsoft app store with a local account, for reasons that appear to start and end with "we want to track everything you do, all the time, because it's more profitable to sell that info to advertisers than it is to sell software to you."

I think it's less devious than that. There is a growing expectation amoung users that things will be interconnected. Their home PC's, laptops, tablets, phone, media centers, game systems, emails, social media, etc. They want to be able to do all of their common things from all of their access devices. Sort of like how people don't want 5 remotes next to them to operate their living-room.

aliasmask wrote:
I didn't see/notice the option for "continue without". The main thing I notice is my password changed when I did a restart. I think linking an online password with your system computer is generally a bad idea though. Seems like it would be more vulnerable to hacking from getting your password stolen online which these days seems more common place with the big companies.

I agree... which is one of the reasons all of my installs are local. I lose all of that inter-connectivity that some can't live without, but I don't care. As I noted, they used to let you click "Create a Local" account when installing Win 10 as a clear options (might have been previous to RTM). Later you could only get the option if you tried, and failed, to enter a real Microsoft account. They don't want you to give up installing Windows because you can't remember your account... they'd rather you create a new one or go Local.

At any rate... it looks like you can switch to local after creating a linked account. Try this: http://www.ilovefreesoftware.com/25/win ... ws-10.html

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:46 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
taustinoc wrote:
Windows 8 and 10 can't access the Microsoft app store with a local account, for reasons that appear to start and end with "we want to track everything you do, all the time, because it's more profitable to sell that info to advertisers than it is to sell software to you."

I think it's less devious than that. There is a growing expectation amoung users that things will be interconnected. Their home PC's, laptops, tablets, phone, media centers, game systems, emails, social media, etc. They want to be able to do all of their common things from all of their access devices. Sort of like how people don't want 5 remotes next to them to operate their living-room.

If you don't create a connected account how are they going to share the credentials to log in to your wifi
http://www.howtogeek.com/219700/what-is ... k-account/

I know opt in yada yada. NO! Its like everytime I let a guest into my house I give them a key and drop them off somewhere where they can get it duplicated.
Stuff like this is why I laugh when I hear Microsoft and Security in the same sentence... (don't get me started on that pin number to log in, biggest security fail ever).


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:36 am 
Actually I feel sorry for MS, they are playing catch-up with Apple in this regard and are getting grief for it.

darn them all to hell, to be honest, but I blame the consumer for accepting this behaviour in exchange for a new shiny.


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:36 am 
Craig wrote:
If you don't create a connected account how are they going to share the credentials to log in to your wifi
http://www.howtogeek.com/219700/what-is ... k-account/

Seems like you're seeing shadows to me.

Default seems to be "Off" (at least it is on the computer I checked). That alone means it's not a big deal to me. At any rate, it's easily modified by you to decide who to share with: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2745 ... ndows.html

Further, even if you do share with them, they never actually see your key:

Quote:
Give and get Internet access without without seeing shared passwords.
You'll get connected to WiFi networks your contacts share, and
they'll get connected to networks you share

In fact, it could be argued that this offers people more security. I mean, in the last year about 4 of my friends have openly given me their wifi keys when I've gone over to their homes. It's generally a time consuming endeavor (depending on the complexity of their keys). I won't exploit that, but I can't say the same for every other guest that they may have graciously given the key to. The truth is that if they used this feature they could pick and choose who to give access to without providing the actual keys. Kind of like a software version of "guest keys" that some routers have built in.

Seems to me that it's just like any tool... in the hands of the wrong person it can be used badly. But with a few minutes of research to understand the feature it could be a nice convenience. *shrug*

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:19 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
In fact, it could be argued that this offers people more security. I mean, in the last year about 4 of my friends have openly given me their wifi keys when I've gone over to their homes. It's generally a time consuming endeavor (depending on the complexity of their keys). I won't exploit that, but I can't say the same for every other guest that they may have graciously given the key to. The truth is that if they used this feature they could pick and choose who to give access to without providing the actual keys. Kind of like a software version of "guest keys" that some routers have built in.

Ha. No extra security in fact much less. :)

You can share your wifi key, which gives everyone in your outlook contacts and/or facebook friends and/or skype running windows 10 access your wifi (you can choose to share with all or none of skype/outlook/facebook contacts not selective contacts).
Or you can say screw that and do what you used to do and give your wifi password to your friends to log on... oh and then hope they don't share wifi keys with all their contacts on outlook, skype, or facebook... Oops
It doesn't matter that they don't know your password, they can get on your wifi.

Its pure security fail. Zero thought security wise put into this.

Oh and if thats not bad enough, when windows 10 first came out it was ON by default and sharing those keys to any outlook/skype/facebook without even telling you it was doing so...
Its no coincidence once it was discovered and security firms pointed out how big a whole it is they patched it to be off by default.
Also no coincidence that because security firms are pointing out its still a huge hole that will be removed completely in an upcoming patch.

The mind boggles trying to figure how they thought this was a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:20 am 
Full Bleed wrote:
taustinoc wrote:
Windows 8 and 10 can't access the Microsoft app store with a local account, for reasons that appear to start and end with "we want to track everything you do, all the time, because it's more profitable to sell that info to advertisers than it is to sell software to you."

I think it's less devious than that. There is a growing expectation amoung users that things will be interconnected. Their home PC's, laptops, tablets, phone, media centers, game systems, emails, social media, etc. They want to be able to do all of their common things from all of their access devices. Sort of like how people don't want 5 remotes next to them to operate their living-room.


That's how they're trying to sell it, yes. But that's not the motivation behind it. Microsoft is trying to transition to a software-as-a-service model, with Windows itself eventually being free (it already is, for some types of devices). And if you're not paying for the service, you're not the customer. You're the product. That really, truly is their new business model. They haven't been secretive about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:54 pm 
taustinoc wrote:
And if you're not paying for the service, you're not the customer. You're the product.


I agree with you. But I just thought I would point out that Maptool is absolutely free and no one is selling your data :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:44 pm 
Jagged wrote:
taustinoc wrote:
And if you're not paying for the service, you're not the customer. You're the product.


I agree with you. But I just thought I would point out that Maptool is absolutely free and no one is selling your data :mrgreen:


MapTool, the guys who make it, and the entire support community all have my respect and admiration, and qualified recommendation. (This is actually the most patient and helpful support community I've ever seen for an open source package. If Linux had guys like you, Microsoft would have been out of business years ago.)


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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:23 am 
Jagged wrote:
Actually I feel sorry for MS, they are playing catch-up with Apple in this regard and are getting grief for it.

darn them all to hell, to be honest, but I blame the consumer for accepting this behaviour in exchange for a new shiny.


I still prefer them to Apple lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Really Microsoft?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:43 pm 
remork wrote:
I still prefer them to Apple lol.

Wow. That's harsh.

;)

I have problems with the way Apple does things, but I have more problems with MS. At least Apple has spent some real effort trying to make your user data secure. For example, all of the predictions of what you're searching for when you use Siri are performed on your device, not on Apple's cloud servers. That means your data stays local on your phone (and that your battery will pay for that feature, but it's a trade-off).

Similarly, if you choose to let Safari store your passwords and auto fill them later, you probably think your data is being stored on Apple's cloud servers... and it is. But it's only stored there encrypted. I read a white paper on how they did this (because you want access across all of your devices but without sharing a password between those devices in a way that Apple would be able to peek at it). The technique they use is downright devious and highly effective. I was quite impressed reading through it (disclaimer: I'm no security expert, but I play one on TV).

If I have to pick between the two, I pick the one who's looking out for me.


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