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Kobold
 
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:46 pm
Posts: 3
 Post subject: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:48 am 
So I am looking for a simple 5e frame work. I see some "next" frame-works but most of them are completely inaccurate to the games actual rule set, and I am having some serious troubles making anything work in the absolute MESS that is the macro systems. I understand map-tools is a dying project, and am just really looking for a good example of a bare-bones campagin to rip apart and use as an example. The 4e stuff simply does to much to warrant it a great example.

I am second year CS student, a decent C++ / Java programmer, and I am having a hard time getting anything to work with this god awful macro system.


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Deity
 
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pm
Posts: 7955
Location: Bay Area
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:58 am 
You can try looking under User Creations » Campaign Frameworks » D&D 5e Frameworks. Btw, the "next" campaigns were for the pre-release of 5e and did have a different rule set.

As a second year CS student and a new member to the site I don't think you're qualified enough to trash talk the macro system. I recommend you use it for awhile, develop some stuff and then try some other sites who have programmable platforms and then make your judgement.

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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:51 am
Posts: 306
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:24 am 
"Dying project", "God Awful". Wow. When I'm looking for help the first thing I do is insult people and trash their work.

As someone that's actually a qualified programmer and used many languages, MT script is heaps of fun. It's got it's quirks but it does the job.

I dunno, if I had such little respect for Maptool I'd just use one of the many superior products that are available...if only I could find them.


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Great Wyrm
 
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:27 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Bristol, UK
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:03 am 
JasonAlanTerry wrote:
I understand map-tools is a dying project


Well you "understand" incorrectly. The project is alive and well. We've just released the 1.4.1.8 build. The project moves very slowly as it is all done by volunteers. I myself haven't been able to devote any due to RL. But we are still moving forward.

We also added an alternative to the macro language a while ago, so you could give that a go if you like. But I will leave that for you to investigate.


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Deity
 
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:40 am
Posts: 9421
Location: Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:08 am 
nice entree! got a good warm feeling with you as new forum user...

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GETTING STARTED WITH MAPTOOLS - TUTORIALS, DOCS, VIDEOS, TOOLS, ETC

My stuff
Excel Tools: Table and Light editors
MT Tools: Bag of Tricks: Tools for Maptool, Dungeon Builder I, Dungeon Builder II,onMouseOverEvent and
DPI.
Frameworks: Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Only War, SET Card Game, RoboRally
Wiki: Debugging Tutorial, Speed Up Your Macros, Working With Two CODE Levels, Shortcut Keys, Avoiding Stack Overflow, READ THIS


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Demigod
 
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Posts: 3775
Location: MD
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:42 pm 
JasonAlanTerry wrote:
I am second year CS student, a decent C++ / Java programmer

I'm none of those things (though I've been a programming dabbler since the C64 days).

Quote:
and I am having a hard time getting anything to work with this god awful macro system.

I love MT's macros system and wouldn't trade it for anything else out there.

Maybe you'd prefer the LUA scripting system used in Fantasy Grounds?

But for my dime, the power and flexibility of the macro programming in MT is superior. I have so many unique, custom features in my framework that were, comparatively, MUCH easier to implement. At this point it would be very difficult to list them all. I automate exactly what I want to be automated in my game, and manually do exactly what I want to do manually (as opposed to having the core program deciding much of that for me.)

If a "non-programmer" can do what I've done then I think you're just not trying:

I have support for difficult terrain, movement tracking enforcement (including height), spells data base, item database, hero points, fumble deck, crit deck, dice karma (roll history and stats), 8-ball, dice box, canned speech, 50+ data fields for each item, advanced combat mechanics and management, custom initiative system (with weapon and spell casting speed factors), manual or auto rolls, integrated feat and class ability support, flexible skill/saves system (custom hot keys), party treasure/notes, personal notes, custom hero points, experience tracking/logs, quick condition application/removal, custom map switching, XP tracking, and scores of other custom features and rules enforcement options that I've been able to add (and forgotten about) along the way to suit my particular game system, house rules, and play style.

Heck, I just added a skill hot keys feature this week (so you can add 4 hotkey buttons to the top of your skill stack to get at them easier.)

I know of nothing out there that is that flexible, powerful, and accessible with such a "simple" macro system. Sure, it's got its quirks and limitations, but between the wiki and the forums you can get a lot of assistance to get through rough patches and onto the next thing you might be interested in. Just know your limitations. Work within your personal scope of knowledge... and grow your competence.

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Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."


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Kobold
 
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:46 pm
Posts: 3
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:31 pm 
Haha, lot's of sensitivity issues here I see. I think something more along the lines of a embedded lua system would be nice, at this point, and with how easy it would be to integrate you could even do python scripting instead of the current MT system. LackeyCCG is honestly the best example I have seen of a project like this (Open Table Top Environment) with a scripting system in place for automation of play.

I love how you guys think I am new to map-tools as well, let me be clear, when I 'trash talk' this macro / scripting system, I am directly comparing it to other systems such as OpenRPG, LackeyCCG, Vassal (which is worse to work with than MapTool), Fantasy Grounds, and Roll20 (which is just terrible).

In response to Full Bleed, what you are saying gives me some hope, and I know these things are more than possible, I just wish it was a bit easier to debug. With RP-Edit gone (Can not find a working download / get old versions working) and the notePad++ support gone maybe I should work on something for Atom.io.

I really am not asking for help, I am looking for validity that map-tools is alive, the community is here, ready to defend the king of open source table tops, and that if I dive in and start working on big projects it will be for a community, and not a ghost forum. I thank you all for the passionate replies.

Also, let me be absolutely clear so this never get's misunderstood again.

I started using map-tools (as a user, not a campaign developer/maintainer) around 2008-09. I have used all other forums of virtual table top software, and despite it's rough edges, map-tools is, and in my mind will always be, the king of virtual table tops. I can and will rip on it's rather dated macro-system as there are alternatives that can be implemented to make it much easier for the end user, but I entirely understand why we ended up with MT and not python/lua scripting. I -absolutely- love this software.


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Giant
 
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:30 pm
Posts: 217
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:56 pm 
JasonAlanTerry wrote:
Haha, lot's of sensitivity issues here I see.


Yeah, people tend to get that way when some snot nosed little punk shows up and starts insulting people can trash talking something they clearly don't know much about. (That's my impression of you. That is exactly the way you come across.)

Your attitude sucks, and has not won you any friends. This is one of the two friendliest, and most helpful, support forums I've ever seen (and of the two, this one is the more useful, if only by a little), and don't deserve your trash talk.

JasonAlanTerry wrote:
I really am not asking for help, I am looking for validity that map-tools is alive, the community is here, ready to defend the king of open source table tops, and that if I dive in and start working on big projects it will be for a community, and not a ghost forum.


You could have done that by simply looking over the forum, counting how much traffic is here on a regular basis, and maybe, you know, reading a bit. Instead, you barge in with attitude and start insulting people's work.

MapTool's macro language isn't like what you're used to. You know what? It's not like what I'm used to either. It's not simple, it's not intuitive, but it's more powerful than any other VTT out there, by far. I have yet to find anything I can't do with it, with a little effort. And the support community is always willing to help out.

Try to avoid acting like the guy nobody invites to their party because he pees on the carpet and blames the cat.


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Demigod
 
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Posts: 3775
Location: MD
 Post subject: Re: How dead is this?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:19 pm 
JasonAlanTerry wrote:
I think something more along the lines of a embedded lua system would be nice, at this point, and with how easy it would be to integrate you could even do python scripting instead of the current MT system.

LUA scripting certainly appeals to a certain kind of coder... I'm not particularly fond of it and what I have to know about the rest of the software to do things (not to mention what it would take to maintain the code to use on their platform.) I can do "simple" things with MT's scripting that would be far more involved with their's... if it's even possible at all.

Quote:
I love how you guys think I am new to map-tools as well

Well, you pop in with a new account, ask if the software is dead (pretty much showing that you haven't bothered to read much of what's been going on lately), proclaim that the macro system is "god awful", and that you are having "serious troubles making *anything* work."

What in that intro should have led anyone to think that you actually spent more than 5 minutes on the forum or trying to use the macro system?

Quote:
In response to Full Bleed, what you are saying gives me some hope, and I know these things are more than possible, I just wish it was a bit easier to debug.

This is the biggest weakness... MT's error codes are often not very helpful. But there are tips sprinkled throughout the forums (like using the pause function to isolate where the error is being thrown)... and the more you use the system the easier it is to track down typical mistakes and understand what an error might be referring to. It certainly can be frustrating to use at times when you hit a wall and are probably missing the obvious... but when that happens to me, I usually either come here looking for advice or just skin the cat another way and move onto something else.

Quote:
and the notePad++ support gone

I use notepad++... but I just use it as a basic editor. The Nerps fork, however, has an editor built in that may someday make it to an official MT release (though I've not spent much time in it to know how well it works.)

Quote:
I am looking for validity that map-tools is alive, the community is here, ready to defend the king of open source table tops, and that if I dive in and start working on big projects it will be for a community, and not a ghost forum. I thank you all for the passionate replies.

It is advancing quite slowly these days... slower than many of us would like... but it is still breathing and there are some very interesting things on the horizon that I hope will make it to a stable release (soon).

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Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."


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