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Dragon
 
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:48 pm
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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:07 am 
Azhrei wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
[...] since it seems like it is still the case that regular periodic autosaving is broken).

I've been thinking about this. We should probably be keeping multiple autosaves and rotating between them. For example, we should create Autosave.cmpgn, renaming the existing file to Autosave-1.cmpgn, and doing that for 2-3 saves by default. Having a single autosave seems to mess people up sometimes when they accidentally do something and then an autosave triggers too soon for them to recover the existing autosave file. :(

I'll look into this; it shouldn't be too tough as it's just renaming existing files if they're already there. We can implement a spinner in the Preferences to control how many there are and default it to three...


That would be very nice -- or even just not allowing the autosave to be deleted until a new one is made. But the problem is a bit bigger than this: As far as I understand, maptool will only do one autosave per save. That is, the regular interval autosave function doesn't work (and hasn't worked for a while).


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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:50 pm 
paulstrait wrote:
[...] maptool will only do one autosave per save. That is, the regular interval autosave function doesn't work (and hasn't worked for a while).

Hm. I'll add a entry for this to the issue tracker. Thanks.

PS: For completeness in the issue report, would you copy/paste the contents of your GatherDebugInfo panel to a post here? That'll give me version and platform information (among other things) that might be useful to tracking it down. Thanks. :)


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Great Wyrm
 
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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:28 pm 
paulstrait wrote:
Ah, I see. I've read about that before, I guess I've been initiated in that club. Managed to use maptool nearly 10 years before triggering it somehow. Anyway, the other issue of token's movement being reverted sometimes when using ctrl-I to reveal vision for them seems like it has to relate to the things that were changed in this version. It happened when I used a macro to teleport a single token (didn't seem to happen when I moved more than one token at once) into a fog of war concealed area.

I don't know what was going on with my log file or with my autosave (though I suspect that even if the autosave had loaded, it would probably have been just the first autosave since the last save since it seems like it is still the case that regular periodic autosaving is broken).


Another Alt-F-Space-Space winner! :) That program feature for ultra-fast-campaign-reset has been there since 1.3! Thanks Az for fixing it though, I'll pull it into my fork as well for the next build.

As for reverting to 1.4.3.19, it's not going to help you with tokens. I didn't make any token changes or anything else that should affect that. Lets see, I changed a macro, fixed GUID, changed campaign saves, added a preference exposed Box2d test (code has been in for a few versions)...Nope, nothing that should affect you in that way.

Now, from time to time I will see tokens "snap back" and this is an issue going back farther than 1.4.0.0. From my testing, it seems to be more of a network/server issue and happens when a "token" gets very large "data" wise. In other words, if you store a LOT of data on it, you can have issues. Everytime you "change" or move a token, it transmits the whole token class (all it's data) over the network.

Also, if you have Indiviual FoW on, that can accumulate data.

Also, if you drag a token into VBL as a player, like into a wall, it may revert it's movement back, ie cancelling it's movement. Are you using the BoT?


Bottom line, I highly highly doubt 1.4.3.20 is causing your issues. :mrgreen:

_________________
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork | TokenTool Nerps! Fork
Custom TokenTool (version 1.0b33): TokenTool.exe


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Demigod
 
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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:26 pm 
JamzTheMan wrote:
Another Alt-F-Space-Space winner!

Shoot... if it had required "Alt-F" it would not have happened as much as it has... but it just requires "Alt-Space-Space-Space". Which if you're lazy with your left thumb and catch the Alt key next to the space bar when "pointing" for your players, you could easily sweep through the cycle without having any idea what just happened.

Thanks for the fix Az... now to get it pushed out in an "official" release so more people start benefiting from it!

_________________
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."


Last edited by Full Bleed on Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:32 pm 
Azhrei wrote:
Hm. I'll add a entry for this to the issue tracker. Thanks.

PS: For completeness in the issue report, would you copy/paste the contents of your GatherDebugInfo panel to a post here? That'll give me version and platform information (among other things) that might be useful to tracking it down. Thanks. :)

Autosave has, apparently, been busted for a long time: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27240&hilit=autosave

I think this has got to be the worst bug in MT right now. I already dislike the way it is *supposed* to work... and the way it's *actually* working right now is pretty useless. ;)

I hope you follow through with your multiple-saves option. Anything is better than what's there right now. Keep in mind that, even when working, "autosave" is really just a crash recovery save... since it deletes the autosave when the program is closed.

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Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."


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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:47 pm 
Full Bleed wrote:
I already dislike the way it is *supposed* to work... and the way it's *actually* working right now is pretty useless. ;)

Well, now you've opened a can of worms. How do you propose it should work? We'll see how close we can get to your ideal solution. :)


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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:47 am 
Azhrei wrote:
Full Bleed wrote:
I already dislike the way it is *supposed* to work... and the way it's *actually* working right now is pretty useless. ;)

Well, now you've opened a can of worms. How do you propose it should work? We'll see how close we can get to your ideal solution. :)

I'd like to see granular control of the "Backup" feature in MT. That is, allow users to 1) set how often and 2) how many backups of their campaigns are made. Right now, the "Backup" feature in MT is voodoo magic (and not in a good way.) No one has any control over it, and when tragedy strikes, they just hope something useful might be in that directory when they go desperately looking to see if MT has been backing up their work.

As for "Auto Save", I think it needs to be renamed to what it is: "Crash Recovery"

Once you make "Backups" function like people expect backups to function, then they won't expect "Auto Save" (aka "Crash Recovery") to do something it was not designed to do.

Then link the two by only having two settings in MT:

A) How often do you want to make a Campaign Backup?
B) How many Campaign Backups do you want to keep?

Require at least 1 Backup file (default to or suggest a higher number).
When a backup is written, a tiny "Crash Recovery File" would be created with the backup's name in it.
When MT is closed properly, the Crash Recovery File flag would be deleted.
If MT loads and sees a crash recovery flag, it will ask if the user wants to load the backup file associated with it (basically, the way it looks for Autosave files now.) However, if it doesn't see the flag, that means MT closed properly and there is no need for "Crash Recovery".

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Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."


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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:54 am 
Thanks, I'll start thinking about the design and implementation. :D


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Dragon
 
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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:10 am 
JamzTheMan wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
Ah, I see. I've read about that before, I guess I've been initiated in that club. Managed to use maptool nearly 10 years before triggering it somehow. Anyway, the other issue of token's movement being reverted sometimes when using ctrl-I to reveal vision for them seems like it has to relate to the things that were changed in this version. It happened when I used a macro to teleport a single token (didn't seem to happen when I moved more than one token at once) into a fog of war concealed area.

I don't know what was going on with my log file or with my autosave (though I suspect that even if the autosave had loaded, it would probably have been just the first autosave since the last save since it seems like it is still the case that regular periodic autosaving is broken).


Another Alt-F-Space-Space winner! :) That program feature for ultra-fast-campaign-reset has been there since 1.3! Thanks Az for fixing it though, I'll pull it into my fork as well for the next build.

As for reverting to 1.4.3.19, it's not going to help you with tokens. I didn't make any token changes or anything else that should affect that. Lets see, I changed a macro, fixed GUID, changed campaign saves, added a preference exposed Box2d test (code has been in for a few versions)...Nope, nothing that should affect you in that way.

Now, from time to time I will see tokens "snap back" and this is an issue going back farther than 1.4.0.0. From my testing, it seems to be more of a network/server issue and happens when a "token" gets very large "data" wise. In other words, if you store a LOT of data on it, you can have issues. Everytime you "change" or move a token, it transmits the whole token class (all it's data) over the network.

Also, if you have Indiviual FoW on, that can accumulate data.

Also, if you drag a token into VBL as a player, like into a wall, it may revert it's movement back, ie cancelling it's movement. Are you using the BoT?


Bottom line, I highly highly doubt 1.4.3.20 is causing your issues. :mrgreen:


Yeah, I certainly haven't looked at it scientifically or figured out to replicate all the specific problems we were having (except the big keystroke one that obviously isn't a 1.4.3.20 issue). I'm sure you are right, but after so many basically flawless sessions with 1.4.3.19, and after a single 1.4.3.20 session in which wonky things were happening constantly throughout the evening, my players would mutiny if we didn't revert. Despite a few of them being engineers, they are kind of superstitious like that. Skepticism about upgrades combined with confirmation bias, focalism, etc.

We are using BoT, I'm familiar with the effect you are talking about, but this was different as it didn't happen upon movement, but rather upon revealing vision. It was a very distinctive phenomenon that happened several times that I've never seen before. I'm sure it has something to do with individual fog of war--I probably should just unselect that next time but I'm kind of curious to see if I can make the same thing happen in 1.4.3.19 keeping every other variable constant. Classic GM vs scientist identity conflict.


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Great Wyrm
 
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 Post subject: Re: [Nerps!] MapTool Fork based on 1.4.1.7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:28 pm 
Oh sure, i get it. And by all means, try 1.4.3.19 and see if you replicates again. Although, if it doesn't, that's not solid proof either... Only if you go to 1.4.3.20 and it happens again after not happening in 1.4.3.19 would it seem to prove something.

Keep me updated if you find something. I'm sure the "loose everything" moment overshadowed any other issue...

_________________
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork | TokenTool Nerps! Fork
Custom TokenTool (version 1.0b33): TokenTool.exe


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