[patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Notes on testing the latest builds of MapTool

Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei

User avatar
jfrazierjr
Deity
Posts: 5176
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:31 pm

Re: [patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Post by jfrazierjr »

Full Bleed wrote: I rarely use conical lighting because players just end up whirling the lighting around and looking anyway, so I don't have much of a horse in this race...
I don't use conical lighting either. But to your point, there are(were at least) some game systems which consider facing changes as spending a movement point for each change(so turning 180 degrees on a square grid would cost 2 movement points.) This mechanic would penalize players from doing this in some cases.

Of course, there are other ways around this from a player perspective(as a group), such as a triangle formation with each of the leading sides of the triangle having their lanterns pointed in slight offset direction to reveal more area to both left and right. But then this has it's own implications of each player having to carry a light source and number of game systems require some type of action to set down a light and draw a weapon that makes this not the most advantageous approach. For example, if you are carrying a light, you may not have a two handed weapon, bow, or crossbow drawn or likewise mages may not have material components in their hands or some such. Again, it really goes back to the system in use.

I could be wrong since it was a LONG time ago(late eighties or early nineties), but I seem to think Rolemaster had a movement penalty for changing facing(though it could have been one of the other countless games I tested out during that time).
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..

User avatar
jfrazierjr
Deity
Posts: 5176
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:31 pm

Re: [patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Post by jfrazierjr »

Lee wrote:
Full Bleed wrote: I rarely use conical lighting because players just end up whirling the lighting around and looking anyway, so I don't have much of a horse in this race... but won't the method you're describing, potentially, make targeting tokens with conical lighting difficult?
Two great points there.

#1 When I first experimented with this months ago, there was still a sliver of the token's image shown (the cone's base), so all my targeting schemes worked (though other schemes may indeed suffer). The obliteration of the base is new and, while desirable, will indeed create targeting/awareness problems. Sigh.

#2 You made me remember to code in a facing lock. I've always wanted that :D

@Jamz: I guess the only workaround for what you want (no details given away) should not be done on the official code base, but the application itself. We can always put it in our own versions, however :lol: Honestly, moving forward, I think footprint lighting should be default for all, and a separate light source to obliterate portions of light areas (along with macro function controls) can then be made for scenarios we want what we discussed for.

I'll be uploading another patch for just the fix and mark that as the official one for b90.

Thanks FullBleed.
Fixing the issue with the footprint reveal when a token is offset is the right thing to do here and nothing else (in the official patch). My suggestion for un-owned tokens not having their footprints revealed for opposing tokens was more of a "it would be neat and likely work more intuitive" thing, but given the further discussion, there are just too many issues to consider adding it into 1.3(namely the issues Full Bleed brought up with targeting).
I save all my Campaign Files to DropBox. Not only can I access a campaign file from pretty much any OS that will run Maptool(Win,OSX, linux), but each file is versioned, so if something goes crazy wild, I can always roll back to a previous version of the same file.

Get your Dropbox 2GB via my referral link, and as a bonus, I get an extra 250 MB of space. Even if you don't don't use my link, I still enthusiastically recommend Dropbox..

User avatar
JamzTheMan
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1872
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: [patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Post by JamzTheMan »

jfrazierjr wrote:
Full Bleed wrote: I rarely use conical lighting because players just end up whirling the lighting around and looking anyway, so I don't have much of a horse in this race...
I don't use conical lighting either. But to your point, there are(were at least) some game systems which consider facing changes as spending a movement point for each change(so turning 180 degrees on a square grid would cost 2 movement points.) This mechanic would penalize players from doing this in some cases.

Of course, there are other ways around this from a player perspective(as a group), such as a triangle formation with each of the leading sides of the triangle having their lanterns pointed in slight offset direction to reveal more area to both left and right. But then this has it's own implications of each player having to carry a light source and number of game systems require some type of action to set down a light and draw a weapon that makes this not the most advantageous approach. For example, if you are carrying a light, you may not have a two handed weapon, bow, or crossbow drawn or likewise mages may not have material components in their hands or some such. Again, it really goes back to the system in use.

I could be wrong since it was a LONG time ago(late eighties or early nineties), but I seem to think Rolemaster had a movement penalty for changing facing(though it could have been one of the other countless games I tested out during that time).
A current system would be Battletech. Granted there are no "light" rules, but if you wanted to do special night time raid scenario with, say, no radar or what not, you could give the mechs floodlights. Here there are specific rules on torso twist/facing. And here the facing does not have to equal direction of movement.
-Jamz
____________________
Custom MapTool 1.4.x.x Fork: maptool.nerps.net
Custom TokenTool 2.0 Fork: tokentool.nerps.net
More information here: MapTool Nerps! Fork

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4736
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: FL

Re: [patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Post by Full Bleed »

jfrazierjr wrote:I don't use conical lighting either. But to your point, there are(were at least) some game systems which consider facing changes as spending a movement point for each change(so turning 180 degrees on a square grid would cost 2 movement points.) This mechanic would penalize players from doing this in some cases.
That get's me thinking... if onTokenMove could be used to "count" a particular degree of facing change as movement it might help accommodate those systems better.

Lee wrote:#2 You made me remember to code in a facing lock. I've always wanted that :D
I think I'd like to see this option in the Initiative Panel next to "Lock Movement".


If we could use onTokenMove to track rotation and lock it when players didn't have initiative then conical lighting would be more useful.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

Lee
Dragon
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:07 am

Re: [patch - MT1.3b90] Conical light fix and enhancement

Post by Lee »

jfrazierjr wrote: Fixing the issue with the footprint reveal when a token is offset is the right thing to do here and nothing else (in the official patch). My suggestion for un-owned tokens not having their footprints revealed for opposing tokens was more of a "it would be neat and likely work more intuitive" thing, but given the further discussion, there are just too many issues to consider adding it into 1.3(namely the issues Full Bleed brought up with targeting).
I agree. I do want to point out, however, that sans the area subtraction idea Jamz and I thought of, a token without a footprint can still be "seen" by the system; at least in my case where I use macro functions for targeting. I'm not sure if there are any exotic applications out there that utilizes the proposed mouseOver hook stickied somewhere in these forums, but it they exist, I guess that's when a problem will come up.
Full Bleed wrote: That get's me thinking... if onTokenMove could be used to "count" a particular degree of facing change as movement it might help accommodate those systems better.
Lee wrote:#2 You made me remember to code in a facing lock. I've always wanted that :D
I think I'd like to see this option in the Initiative Panel next to "Lock Movement".

If we could use onTokenMove to track rotation and lock it when players didn't have initiative then conical lighting would be more useful.
With as much as I know of the code, I believe a separate "hook" is needed, not one that rides on onTokenMove (oTM). oTM is triggered when tokens hit tbe map after they're picked up; rotating facing is done elsewhere, which is actually a good thing so as not to overload oTM further.

Yeah, any addition I make to the code have GUI controls, accessibility options, and macro functionality, so putting it on the Initiative Panel fits the bill for one criterion.

I've scribbled down some pseudo-code (not exactly an algorithm) in the past prior to my attempt to do this, but it's definitely on my TO-DO list, though not necessarily on Tier 1.

Post Reply

Return to “Testing”