Adventurers

[Sepp]

Double Post

[Sepp]

Think it will be fine. Worst case scenario we have to pass a dc 10 check to give someone a +2 to the check.

Clearly someone needs to read the Aid Another rules again since the RC came out. It's DC 10+Half Level. If you fail the roll, the person you where trying to aid takes a -1 to their check.

[shamballa]

Think it will be fine. Worst case scenario we have to pass a dc 10 check to give someone a +2 to the check.

Clearly someone needs to read the Aid Another rules again since the RC came out. It's DC 10+Half Level. If you fail the roll, the person you where trying to aid takes a -1 to their check.

Ummm... at level 1 it will be a dc 10. At level 2 it will be a dc 11... but your skill will get half level so it would be DC 11-1 (your half level)= 10. At level 4 it would be 12 and you would have a 2.

Mathmatically: 10+halflevel= x+halflevel= 10=x. X= the roll on a d20 required.

So unless Wisdom or whatever skill it is you are aiding to is your dump stat you will only need to roll a 10 or less to succeed in granting a bonus.

As far as I'm concerned you would still need a to roll a 10 a majority of the time to succeed at aiding another. The only effect it really has is that after like level 21 you don't automatically succeed no matter what. But thanks for the info, the last DnD book I looked at was Psionic Power. I stick essentially to the DM1 and 2 and just look up the rules in the compendium if there are any confusions or disagreements.

[Sepp]

Think it will be fine. Worst case scenario we have to pass a dc 10 check to give someone a +2 to the check.

Clearly someone needs to read the Aid Another rules again since the RC came out. It's DC 10+Half Level. If you fail the roll, the person you where trying to aid takes a -1 to their check.

Ummm... at level 1 it will be a dc 10. At level 2 it will be a dc 11... but your skill will get half level so it would be DC 11-1 (your half level)= 10. At level 4 it would be 12 and you would have a 2.

Mathmatically: 10+halflevel= x+halflevel= 10=x. X= the roll on a d20 required.

So unless Wisdom or whatever skill it is you are aiding to is your dump stat you will only need to roll a 10 or less to succeed in granting a bonus.

As far as I'm concerned you would still need a to roll a 10 a majority of the time to succeed at aiding another. The only effect it really has is that after like level 21 you don't automatically succeed no matter what. But thanks for the info, the last DnD book I looked at was Psionic Power. I stick essentially to the DM1 and 2 and just look up the rules in the compendium if there are any confusions or disagreements.

They clarified a lot of rules in the RC. And a 50/50 shot to add a +2 or -1 isn't worth the gamble, particularly in this case, as the only one trained in Heal has a Wis Mod of zero. Against the Disease DC to 'improve', that's going to be a very tough roll.

The DCs for Easy/Average/Hard rolls where also adjusted in the RC, if you haven't been following the update documents.

[shamballa]

No I have not.... but still not really that worried. I understand where you are coming from but if I'm looking at the right rule update I'm not worried. Level 1-3 the hardest DC that should be thrown at us should be a 15. That is a 55% (rolling 10-20) right there for someone who has Wis as a dump stat but is trained in heal. My wisbonus is 4 so I would have a 75% chance of giving a +2 giving the one trained in heal giving them a starting 7 requring a roll of 8 (a 65% chance of succeeding).

Again that would be a worst case scenario in which we would have a 55-65% chance of success. If you guys feel that uncomfortable I guess I can drop one of my skills but it would really just put us in the same situation but with another stat.

Edit: All in all I'll do what you guys want. I would have to think of a good character reason to pick up heal but it can be done.

[Sepp]

No I have not.... but still not really that worried. I understand where you are coming from but if I'm looking at the right rule update I'm not worried. Level 1-3 the hardest DC that should be thrown at us should be a 15. That is a 55% (rolling 10-20) right there for someone who has Wis as a dump stat but is trained in heal. My wisbonus is 4 so I would have a 75% chance of giving a +2 giving the one trained in heal giving them a starting 7 requring a roll of 8 (a 65% chance of succeeding).

Again that would be a worst case scenario in which we would have a 55-65% chance of success. If you guys feel that uncomfortable I guess I can drop one of my skills but it would really just put us in the same situation but with another stat.

Edit: All in all I'll do what you guys want. I would have to think of a good character reason to pick up heal but it can be done.

Um... Level 1, Hard DC is 19. Level 3, Hard DC is 21.

I'm not saying you should retrain, or even asking you to, my point was Aid Another isn't going to be a very good option for any skill roll, if you are not trained in the skill or have the skill key stat at 18. The moderate DC will be closer to your scenario of having a 55% chance of being hit, but the hard DC will not.

[shamballa]

No I have not.... but still not really that worried. I understand where you are coming from but if I'm looking at the right rule update I'm not worried. Level 1-3 the hardest DC that should be thrown at us should be a 15. That is a 55% (rolling 10-20) right there for someone who has Wis as a dump stat but is trained in heal. My wisbonus is 4 so I would have a 75% chance of giving a +2 giving the one trained in heal giving them a starting 7 requring a roll of 8 (a 65% chance of succeeding).

Again that would be a worst case scenario in which we would have a 55-65% chance of success. If you guys feel that uncomfortable I guess I can drop one of my skills but it would really just put us in the same situation but with another stat.

Edit: All in all I'll do what you guys want. I would have to think of a good character reason to pick up heal but it can be done.

Um... Level 1, Hard DC is 19. Level 3, Hard DC is 21.

I'm not saying you should retrain, or even asking you to, my point was Aid Another isn't going to be a very good option for any skill roll, if you are not trained in the skill or have the skill key stat at 18. The moderate DC will be closer to your scenario of having a 55% chance of being hit, but the hard DC will not.

Ohhhhh I just looked at the updated rules list and just saw the dcs and kinda assumed. Shutting up now.

[Sepp]

No I have not.... but still not really that worried. I understand where you are coming from but if I'm looking at the right rule update I'm not worried. Level 1-3 the hardest DC that should be thrown at us should be a 15. That is a 55% (rolling 10-20) right there for someone who has Wis as a dump stat but is trained in heal. My wisbonus is 4 so I would have a 75% chance of giving a +2 giving the one trained in heal giving them a starting 7 requring a roll of 8 (a 65% chance of succeeding).

Again that would be a worst case scenario in which we would have a 55-65% chance of success. If you guys feel that uncomfortable I guess I can drop one of my skills but it would really just put us in the same situation but with another stat.

Edit: All in all I'll do what you guys want. I would have to think of a good character reason to pick up heal but it can be done.

Um... Level 1, Hard DC is 19. Level 3, Hard DC is 21.

I'm not saying you should retrain, or even asking you to, my point was Aid Another isn't going to be a very good option for any skill roll, if you are not trained in the skill or have the skill key stat at 18. The moderate DC will be closer to your scenario of having a 55% chance of being hit, but the hard DC will not.

Ohhhhh I just looked at the updated rules list and just saw the dcs and kinda assumed. Shutting up now.

Heh. Hope I didn't come across as rude, I don't have much time right now, so I type fast without all the details.

Easy and Moderate are no issue, it's the hard I'm worried about. We had disease on our paladin in another game, it was unpleasant to say the least.

[shamballa]

Its cool. Its good to be prepared for all sorts of scenarios. I'm sure we will be able to figure out a way to boost up the heal checks via items, aid checks, etc.

[Sepp]

I don't know what I was thinking, but Rangers don't have Thievery as a Class Skill. Sorry.

[shamballa]

Its all good dude... I never got around to fixing the token anyway.

[imperialjunkie]

Basically everyone should look at their skill allotment and think through how it would affect a campaign where resource management and Skill Challenges are important, which Wargoose has clearly telegraphed. I see four basic 'domains' of skill uses: physical challenges (Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance), social situations (Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Intimidate, Streetwise), knowledge gathering (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Nature, Religion, Streetwise), and specialist jobs (Arcana, Heal, Stealth, Thievery). Perception can be used in a few of them, and is important leading up to combat. In my opinion, everyone should have a skill trained in 3 of those domains in order to be useful in a skill-focused campaign. Some classes, though, make that difficult, such as Wizard and Fighter. Two is probably OK in those situations.

Looking at our spread, there are lots of physical skills accounted for. Looks like only Paul's wizard will have regular failures in that arena. We're fairly good on knowledge skills, with enough people having one that there won't be too many failures. We're light on skill-monkey skills, so having the rangers each take Thievery or Stealth would be helpful. Tygaran's fighter won't be the best at Heal, given his Wis, but it's something. We have quite a few Arcana users that might be helpful with some traps. Social skills we are woefully inadequate in. My warlord is pretty much it, so anyone who has a decent Wis might want to consider taking Insight in order to contribute in a social Skill Challenge. We're going to have problems there.

I think the rangers are probably the most flexible in our areas of weakness, given their Dex/Wis primary or secondary stats. I notice that Sepp's ranger has Athletics, Acrobatics, and Endurance. I know that class guides usually recommend all of those, mainly for combat/encounter reasons, but this campaign might require a little flexibility. Maybe drop Acrobatics and take Stealth? That way shamballa's ranger can drop Stealth and take Insight, which is a class skill for seeker. I forget the rules for hybrids with skills, so I assume the ranger|seeker only has 4 trained skills due to hybrid rules. If there's a mistake there, and shamballa's PC should have 5 trained skills, then I recommend he pick up Heal given his Wisdom.

That's my opinion on it.

[shamballa]

Nope only 4. I mostly agree with what you are saying. I would prefer to keep it as is as much as possible.

Also remember that certain backgrounds will give you access to skills and skill bonuses u normally wouldn't get... that is actually how I managed to pick up thievery. The scales of war backgrounds do both a good job of giving you additional skills and bonuses to said skills. I wouldn't just pick em randomly cause you need a skill, but rather read through the various backgrounds available and see if they fit your character.

[Sepp]

Good suggestions, though I'd rather swap Athletics then Acrobatics.

Since I have no CON, by background really needs to be the one I've chosen, which allows my highest stat to replace CON for HP. As a front line combatant, I need that HP. I'm not fond of taking Stealth, as it leads, in my experience, to the inevitable party splitting in which half the PCs wait while two others sneak ahead. Unless we are going to use the Group Stealth rules, I'd rather not have a mixed Stealthy/Clanky group.

[shamballa]

Act looking at all the chars I'm the only one with a wis as a secondary/ second primary.

Stealth has always been hit or miss for me. Success when like half the group has stealth so we are able to sneak around the group and get em from both sides with surprise rounds or disallowing surprise rounds. Miss when me and a teammate get caught midway and he dies or when I sneak into a room which was completely quiet only to find it filled to the brink with constructs who became active upon me entering the room.

But if no else can I'm perfectly okay with picking stealth. My companion is trained in athletics so I will drop acrobatics and pick up insight. If someone else wanted to pick up thievery I would have no problem grabbing heal. Worst case scenario level 2 I will just pick up a skill training.