Layers

Progress reports and musings from the developers on the current gaming tools.

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RPTroll
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Post by RPTroll »

I suppose this could be used by the card game players as well with each card a placeable image especially if you could stack images and bring one to the top and move it.

The werewolf example made me think of cards with a ‘back’ for face down and ‘front’ for face up.
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Post by Killydd »

hm, the cards thing would need one added piece of functionality though: be face up for an arbitrary person, and face down for everyone else. Probably could be handled through the ownership property, though of course shuffling also presents problems, though by no means insurmountable.

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

Good point.
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drswoboda
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Post by drswoboda »

trevor wrote: Images will work almost exactly the same as tokens do now, they will just have more flexible rules for rotation and scaling, and will be less "selectable" so you don't accidentally move a tree by clicking on it.
I think it would be better to have the stacking rules for layers based on the layer postion, and not the individual obeject.

Overall it is easier and more flexible. You know all things in X layer are above/below Y layer and you can change that relationship with one action, not one action per object.

But card games would be a different beast and would require a new ojbect that acted different than the standard token. I think the MAP aspects should follow a more CAD like approach to building maps with layers.

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

drswoboda wrote:
trevor wrote: Images will work almost exactly the same as tokens do now, they will just have more flexible rules for rotation and scaling, and will be less "selectable" so you don't accidentally move a tree by clicking on it.
I think it would be better to have the stacking rules for layers based on the layer postion, and not the individual obeject.

Overall it is easier and more flexible. You know all things in X layer are above/below Y layer and you can change that relationship with one action, not one action per object.
I think we're talkin about the same thing. There will be some N number of layers, each with its own set of images, tokens, drawables. The tokens are ordered within their layer (z-ordered), and the layers are also ordered (z-ordered).
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Post by brisingre »

Killydd wrote:hm, the cards thing would need one added piece of functionality though: be face up for an arbitrary person, and face down for everyone else. Probably could be handled through the ownership property, though of course shuffling also presents problems, though by no means insurmountable.
If you put in shuffling, this would be just what I need to do ccgs. I have tried lackey, but it is annoying because you need plugins...
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Post by dorpond »

I am VERY interested and probably look forward to it the most.

I am speaking specifically about light removing FoW but not penetrating walls, doors, and other misc objects we mark.

The only way I can see this it to trace walls, door and whatever on another layer. Light will never pass through this.

Things to think about:
Darkness spell. It dims down bright light and makes it shadowy. It would be cool to have effects that we can just drop down to make this happen automatically. Not really sure what you would get on the other side of the "bubble" though but that is another argument that can fill 10 pages on the boards. (example: shine a bullseye through a darkness spell - is it shadowy in the darkness AND beyond or does it get bright again once the light leaves the darkness? - think about that one for a while.. I never experinced magic in real life :P )

But yeah, I really hope that layers and FoW get high priority on the todo list.

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Post by dorpond »

As I was building a map, I was thinking of the things I would like to have with Layers. Before I start though, I would like to say that I too like the idea of having advanced layers (for veterans) along with easy layers (for beginners).

Now, I was building a map and I started thinking about the hidden entrance to the temple. "How would I approach this?" I said to myself.. I know that I want to be able to stamp most of the temple with Maptools so I figured I'd make a map as basic as possible.

So I put down walls and a floor in Dundjinni.

So then I started thinking how I would do the hidden entrance.. I thought that perhaps I could have a piece of wall drawn out and have the door under the piece of wall. When the players find the entrance, I simple hide the piece of wall (or delete it) and then the door shows under it. Then when the players open the door, the stamp of the door I can rotate, and voila!

So here is the image for referrence:
Image

So if I were to put this map together in Maptools it would be like this:
Bottom Layer: Dundjinni map (static - which in my case would be walls and floor)
Next layer going up: Door stamp
Next layer going up: Wall to cover door stamp

(other things to think about)
Next layer going up: Light Blocking Layer drawn over objects and walls (future feature)
Next layer going up: FoW
Next Layer going up: Light Source.

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Post by dorpond »

Another way to hide secret doors would be to drawn the doorways in completely in your favorite map making program and just stamp a door in the middle of the wall..

Hide it and when the party finds it, make it visible..

Thoughts?

Image

Actually, it might look kinda funny opened up though. How would you guys design your maps for use with Maptools?

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

Interesting. It would seem that a tricky part would be remembering where the secret doors are hidden ?

What if the secret doors were actually above the wall, but their visibility turned off.
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Post by Steel Rat »

With the first approach, wouldn't the wall stamp stand out as odd-looking, since it has it's own bevel and shadow? doesn't seem like it would blend.

I would probably opt for the second way as being easier, and less time-consuming.
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dorpond
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Post by dorpond »

trevor wrote:Interesting. It would seem that a tricky part would be remembering where the secret doors are hidden ?

What if the secret doors were actually above the wall, but their visibility turned off.
Or maybe you can have an option to Blink all items in a layer? Another words, if I switch to the secret layer, perhaps there would be an option to blink or flash on and off or maybe even glow the items that are on that layer?

What do I know? That is why I am throwing it up here - for you genius types to figure out :)

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

dorpond wrote:
trevor wrote:Interesting. It would seem that a tricky part would be remembering where the secret doors are hidden ?

What if the secret doors were actually above the wall, but their visibility turned off.
Or maybe you can have an option to Blink all items in a layer? Another words, if I switch to the secret layer, perhaps there would be an option to blink or flash on and off or maybe even glow the items that are on that layer?

What do I know? That is why I am throwing it up here - for you genius types to figure out :)
AHHH THE BLINKING !!!! AHHHHH MAKE IT STOP !!!!

*cough*

ahem. Sorry, flashbacks to the html <blink> tag :)

Hmmm. Have to think about a good way to do this. I'm open to suggestions.
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dorpond
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Post by dorpond »

Steel Rat wrote:With the first approach, wouldn't the wall stamp stand out as odd-looking, since it has it's own bevel and shadow? doesn't seem like it would blend.

I would probably opt for the second way as being easier, and less time-consuming.
Yeah, I was thinking that before my original post. You would almost have to draw the wall and literally cut the piece out with a graphic program. Then that piece would fit perfectly if lined up correctly.. Far too much work if you ask me..

So that is something to keep in the back of your mind for all you map makers. I know it seems really odd making maps with every secret room and hallway sealed up but that might be the best way to approach this..

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trevor
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Post by trevor »

dorpond wrote:
Steel Rat wrote:With the first approach, wouldn't the wall stamp stand out as odd-looking, since it has it's own bevel and shadow? doesn't seem like it would blend.

I would probably opt for the second way as being easier, and less time-consuming.
Yeah, I was thinking that before my original post. You would almost have to draw the wall and literally cut the piece out with a graphic program. Then that piece would fit perfectly if lined up correctly.. Far too much work if you ask me..

So that is something to keep in the back of your mind for all you map makers. I know it seems really odd making maps with every secret room and hallway sealed up but that might be the best way to approach this..
An option would be similar to your second example, where you just draw the wall as normal, but put a Secret Door stamp on top of it, hide it, and when the players find it, show it. That way the GM can always see it, and know it is there, but the players don't until they find it. Then just need a way to indicate it's open/closed state.
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