RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

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Belizan
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RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

Hello everyone. I've been putting together this framework over the last three weekends (took a lot longer than I expected), for a game I was expecting to run. The game doesn't look like it's going to happen, but I thought the framework was worth posting in case there are any other L5R fans out there. Maybe someone will run an L5R game and I'll get to play 8D.

The initial seeds for this framework came from the L5R die rollers posted by Rumble (http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18224) and metatheurgist (http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=23866). From there I tried to add a minimal set of features that I wanted personally for running L5R. I found 's colorScheme lib a few weeks ago, and adopted it immediately for customizing styling, although the extent to which I really leverage the css classes therein is limited.

The general purpose of this framework is to enable the rules, not enforce them. As such I've made only a token nod towards "security", and very little towards enforcement (I make a modest effort to make sure the GM, if he's paying attention, can tell if a player is cheating). So, for instance, the system will ask you to set your stance at the start of your turn, but it won't prevent you from changing it later.

Features
Framework Features (v0.1a)
  • Players
  • Of course, an rKn die roller, allowing the setting of a bonus, designation of the roll as unskilled or emphasis, to the GM or to all players.
  • An "STR" die roll builder dialog. STR stands for Skill-Trait-Ring Roll. The dialog lets you set up a particular roll against a particular TN, which in turn will bring up a roll dialog allowing one to set raises and add bonuses before rolling. (plus options for spending void, designating emphasis, unskilled, etc.). I also have a house rule option for an "open" roll, where one gets a raise for every 15 one beats the TN by.
  • Void Tracking.
  • A simple Don Armor feature, which allows you to designate what sort of armor a token is wearing, and its effects.
  • Basic token statsheet setup, displaying Rings/Traits, Armor, Void Points and Wound Levels/Penalties
    GM -- In addition to the above buttons, which the GM can use on any tokens (not just ones he controls)
  • Push Meditation/Medicine/Tea Ceremony buttons, allow you to generate roll dialogs for these skills to push to designated players with the resulting effects automatically applied (void recovery or wound recovery as appropriate. As the GM you can modify the base TNs, skills used, etc, the rules are sited for you for convenience and the dialogs seeded with the default values.
  • The primary tool for the GM is the "GM Panel" which exposes its own set of features...
    • Selection Control -- Automatically clear select, add pc's, pc's NPCs or your own NPCs to the current selection set. Also displays all the tokens currently selected with the option to remove any selected token from the current selection.
    • Push Roll -- Push a roll you designate to the currently selected token's owners. This will generate a link with the given roll, at the TN you specify with link and description you specify. E.g. push Perception rolls to your players. You can specify the results to go only to you (the GM).
    • Roll Init -- Part of the combat system (see below), the panel allows you to roll init and add to combat all the selected units by one of three methods: Each individually, By TokenImage as groups (so tokens with the same image share the same init), or all selected as one group init. Roll init, as per 4e rules requires you to set stances for each token before it rolls inits for them. It takes the init values from the token's stats or InitiativePool trait (if set), but gives you the option to modify the die roll before rolling.
    • Push Damage -- Push Damage to selected tokens, set whether armor reduction applies to the damage (if armor was set with the don armor feature above). This will bring up a Receive Damage dialog with values customized by your specification, for the token owner, allowing them to specify any special reduction they might have, and spend void to mitigate damage.
    • Rest -- Rests all the selected tokens, brings up a dialog allowing you to tailor somewhat the degree of recovery. Allows entry of a custom formula, or use of the default 4e rules for "a night's rest". Applies to selected for void and wound recovery (indicated separately).
    • Set Scene -- I have a particular feature I've wanted for GMing, which I added to the panel. This feature allows you to "set a scene description", describing a location, mood, weather, whatever. Scene description is sent to the PCs in a special font, and updated in a "Scene" frame, which the PCs can dock somewhere to see the current scene at a glance (I dock mine at the top of my chat list).
    Combat -- The Combat Infrastructure applies to Players and GMs with differing degrees of control.
    • 4e Combat flow. Discrete 3 stages. GM initiates combat by "Starting Combat". Pushes a roll init dialog to the players. As per 4e rules, tokens must set their round 1 stance before rolling initiative.
    • Brings up a Combat Frame which can be docked that is updated as combat flow progresses--indicates the stage of combat as well as the round. In Stage 1, this frame will display who has not yet indicated they are ready (having exerised or passed on their stage 1 options). In Stage 2, this frame will indicate whose turn it is, provide a handy end turn link if you own the current acting token, as well as a Delay action link. If you are currently delayed, this frame will allow you to indicate your desire to act after the current actor.
    • Support for Stage 1 actions -- Void options to swap init, improve armor tn, or your improve init.
    • Stage 2 actions -- Reminds players to set their stance at the start of their action in stage 2 after the first round.
    • Stage 3 clean up -- Resets modifiers from Stage 1, and handles Center stance init bonus for next round (also clears delayed initiatives)
Usage
The framework contains two lib tokens--Lib:L5R and Lib:colorSchemes. The Lib:colorSchemes token is unmodified, at this juncture, from the version in its latest release (see above). The Color Scheme Manager button on that lib will bring up the dialog for setting your color preferences. Lib:L5R is not intended to be used directly. Instead, all the features you might want to use are exposed via Campaign macros for the Players and the GM. These buttons should be safe to drag wherever, as you like, afaik.
Recommended Server Settings
Having now walked through someone else setting up a server with this framework once, I have a few notes for anyone looking to do so. I designed the framework with certain settings, specifically... (the following should all be on)
  • Strict token ownership
  • Use Individual Views (not sure this is really important, tbh)
  • Restricted Player Impersonation
  • Players Receive Campaign Macros
  • Use ToolTips for [] Rolls
Disclaimers
I have a host of disclaimers for the wary 8).
Disclaimers
So, while I've used Maptools a bit off and on over the years, I've never done any MT "scripting" before this framework. Never even looked at it :/. In fact, I've don't even have much experience working with MT frameworks. A few years back I played in a few SR4 campaigns that used an SR4 framework, but from what I know now, I'm pretty sure we weren't using it correctly--we basically just used its dice roller. A few months ago I was in a Werewolf game where another player made a die roller and a simple init and health tracker button. That gave me the idea to make this framework.

As a result of the above facts, the code in this framework is very ad hoc. I had no experience with MT or what it could do, and the code reflects this. Depending on when I wrote the given macro, there is a sort of evolutionary progression of the code--It's in desperate need of a rewrite. The longer I worked in MT the more "sophisticated" my use of it became. This can be very confusing if one goes to look at the code, as I use different patterns as time goes on. Worse, I attempted about midway through to enforce some coding conventions and guidelines, but those conventions turned out to be insufficient and were grown slightly as I continued working. I also never went back and completely rewrote the old code to conform to those rules. Most of the code is not commented, in part because it took me a while to become confident in my ability to comment code without causing side effects.

Finally, this framework is very much an Alpha/WIP. As I stated at the first, I wrote this framework for a game I never actually got to run. Thus, it's seen very limited testing. One of my goals here, if people are interested, is to get some help testing its features
Future Possibilities:
I have not currently scheduled additional time to expand this framework, but if there is sufficient interest, I might. While building the framework many ideas occurred to me for other features which I could add that might be fun. I list many of those below.
Future Features
  • Possible Features -- There were a number of features I considered adding while I was writing this framework that were beyond my original conception. Mostly these represent things I figured out how to do once I got into the scripting of MT. A few are features I chose to cut, due to the time sink aspect of this project in the interest of getting it out there sooner, rather than later. As I mentioned above, future development of this framework (by me, at least) depends largely on how much, if any, use/commentary it gets here. If no one is using it, it doesn't seem worthwhile to add features to it?
  • The first thing I would probably do would be a major code review and refactoring to normalize & standardize the code, naming and coding conventions and patterns used. Also offload commonly used subfunctions in contextless macros.
  • Combat Action Frame -- This was the main cut feature. Mostly I decided that what it could do with what little I had in the framework so far felt rather limited in value. The idea is to have a frame in combat where you can prep your combat action, either a melee attack or a casting action. The framework already has a good understanding of what any given token's TN to hit is, as well as how to roll dice and designate raises. But, no skills, no weapons and so no damage (except perhaps for NPCs), etc. The rudimentary bits of the frame are in place.
  • Stance modifications -- The other main cut feature. Most of the effects of stances could be automated given the Combat Action frame above. The infrastructure for this is largely in place, already.
  • Add to the Combat Action Frame actual action tracking--1 Complex or 2 Standard actions, plus free actions. Some sort of description of available free actions, possibly even with tracking for the idea you can only do one of each. Specification of an attack as a complex or standard action, and tracking thereof. Tracking complex action to Mastery Level casting requirements for Spells.
  • Weapons. Analagous to Armor.
  • Clan libs. Lib Token per clan, set to the mon image for reference of clan specific info in future expansions and campaign inclusion of the mons for future character sheets, etc. Clan Name, Clan Image, etc. Families as well.
  • School libs. Lib Tokens for each school to use in conjunction with a hook/event type system to implement school technique modifiers in the framework.
  • The specialized push dialogs for skills (e.g. Push Meditation) could be generalized to allow a MT saavy GM to push an arbitrary roll with an arbitrary set of automated "rewards" for success. Surfacing (exposing) this capability would require a new dialog/frame. These could even be saved to a library on a GM Lib token (to avoid loss on future upgrade) allowing GMs to develop collections of personalized automated tests.
  • Skills -- Three parts. First, add support for the specification of skill ranks and emphasises on tokens. Second, add to the "data" library knowledge of every skill, description, emphasises, default trait, etc. Wired in lookup/access for STR, etc.
  • Spells -- Analagous to Skill above. Three parts again, one for specifying a token's knowledge. A second for adding this information to the campaign's "database". Third, leverage the reward lexicon to automate spell effects.
  • Abilities (For NPCs), Kata, Kiho, Merits/Flaws each analagous to the Skills or Spells above. I'm not sure where the line is with AEG for this sort of thing. Not to mention, this is a lot of data entry. Skills would definitely be the first, most significant feature to add, imo. But use thereof, requires significant data entry by players as well as rptok tracking. YMMV.
  • Character Sheet -- This feature looks like I cut it, but actually it was never on my list. For my games, I felt my players would not want to maintain separate copies of their characters both in MT and outside of it (we use pdfs a lot). There are degrees of this feature. NPC vs. PC sheets. Edittable vs. Display only. Then get into number tabs (include skills? gear? spells? schools? etc.). A great deal of time could be wasted^h^h^h^h^h^h spent here.
  • Party Frame -- This is something I personally could see being quite useful. After writing the selectionUICmp for the GMPanel I thought a party frame for combat, listing out each combatant with a variety of info for tracking and GM command console for combat could be really useful. Push skills, push damage. integrate with the generic reward tracker (below). Give Init, display who'se delayed, who owns each token on the list, void spent this round, void left, wound level, TN to hit, stance and when it was set, etc. Also add to selection, etc. Useful features for watching for cheating as well if one were so inclined.
  • RP Point Tracker/Generic Reward Tracker -- Allow the GM to define various kinds of rewards (default example being XP, but could also include Glory, Honor, Duty, etc.) and set up a system to adjust those values via a dialog/frame and programmatically.
  • Add Sides to combat -- This would be a framework enhancement allowing the GM to specify groups of tokens as being "on the same side" for faster/easier target menus for selecting friendly/enemy/allied tokens where that might be desireable.
  • Extend Color Schemes -- I thought about doing this while I was building the framework initially. Basically adding to the options the Color Scheme system allows for to include fonts, font size, etc. and adding some class markups for chat messages as well (announce, combat.announce, etc.). Would go hand in hand, presumably with a beautification effort of my many dialogs and frames. I made a first pass attempt to make them not ugly, but they are far from pretty, and only marginally leverage the options exposed by the Color Schemes library.
  • Campaign Settings panel -- For setting house rules, as house rules get implemented. For instance, I would add the concept of "Open" rolls to this panel as they are a house rule of my own. Other house rules which might get implemented could similarly be tweaked here.
  • Inclusion of other MT drop-ins. For instance there's a sound token thread I've been meaning to check out. And there is a promising looking thread on graphical backgrounds that could be nice.
Finally, anyone who might have suggestions for improvements (to a feature or an implementation), other features, bug reports, etc. please post them here. As I said at start, I don't have a lot of expertise with MT, so old hands with the tool who have developed robust or clever methodologies for stuff could really help me shore up this framework :).

(Also, the token collection I made... https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gjhl2fa0juyg92/Tokens.zip)
Attachments
L5R 4e Framework v0.1a1.cmpgn
The campaign file for the L5R Framework
(107.26 KiB) Downloaded 263 times
Last edited by Belizan on Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

Belizan
Kobold
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:44 am

Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

*** Reserved For Future Use***

Belizan
Kobold
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:44 am

Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

*** Reserved For Future Use***

(I'm being way too optimistic here, arn't I?)

Lee
Dragon
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Lee »

Belizan wrote:*** Reserved For Future Use***

(I'm being way too optimistic here, arn't I?)
:lol: Nah. I wouldn't say that. Keep at it. I was working on something similar before jumping to the actual MT source. I've been meaning to get with AEG to offer some suggestions for 5e since 4e is a $#@!@#!#%@$ to automate.

Belizan
Kobold
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

I thought I did a reasonable job covering the 4e mechanics (that I cover, that is). I have the algorithmic plans for a great deal more support. MT makes it very difficult, not so much L5R, imo. My biggest complaints in raw features would be the lack of some analog to javascript support in the presentation layer (so you can't validate, update, or even store fields to prevent them from being cleared by things like onSelectionChanged, let alone update values or dynamically modify the form).

But, like I said, I haven't gotten to use it really, so... 8). If you do get the chance to check it out, I'd be happy for any feedback.

Lee
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Lee »

:lol: You're on the right track, especially with breaking stuff into clan/affiliation-specific libraries; though there'll be some aspects that you'd want to consolidate instead of modularize. Since you're paradigm is to semi-automate and not enforce the rules, you're likely to have an easier go at this; full automation is where I have a beef with the (not only) 4e system since there are timing issues, arbitrary effects, and the like, and keeping track of everything in an effects+event queue, while optimizing for performance (considering MT's parsing issues), really stretched development time. I'd like to see 5e be more friendly in this aspect, as I'd be happy to write the (official?) framework if it were so. As such, my 4e framework is languishing at the moment.

Looking at the features in 0.1a, we have a lot of similar approaches (as is expected), particularly the 3-stage approach to combat; though mine is 4 (I think) since there're effects that clear at the start of the round instead of the end. It could also 4.5 since, as you know, clan abilities such as those rooted on the Center stance, allow a choice on where to apply the school+stance bonus to a roll. I also happen to lock stances in once they're set for a round.

You'll eventually (or already have) hit the mass of work needed to be done in importing the 4e data (e.g. schools, skills, innate abilities, spells, items) into your framework. This was where I stopped after the Book of Air (I believe). Full-automation requires solid interplay between all entries, so you could imagine the long coffee-break where I never came back, after that :lol:

I'd worry about the presentation details after writing all the underlying mechanisms, so as not to retool them repeatedly with each new addition.

I'll take a look at this when I have the time. I'm curious about your data structures, since mine were (too) complex in the attempt to capture everything. If you'd like, you can check out the calendar drop-in in my sig. I coded it with Rokugan in mind; evidenced by the screenshots :)

Edit: Crap. it seems the images I uploaded are not where they were before. Hopefully, I'll have replaced them by the time you check it out.

Edit #2: Totally lost. You'll just have to check it out yourself :lol:

Belizan
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

My issue with automation and enforcement is really about MT, not L5R. For automation, the capabilities exposed in MT are just too primitive. Laying out the html for the various interfaces is time consuming in the extreme :(. The UI has effectively no event or control structure. These issues cripple my ability to create an interface I'd find enjoyable with sufficient flexibility to allow for gaming as I see it :). Even the current system, I have riddled in my notes thoughts like, should I somehow allow the GM to have a hook to tweak or approve various values, etc. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm not a very stringent by the rules sort of GM/Player, and therefore full automation has limited appeal.

As for enforcement in particular, I don't really know the details of who, what, when have access to what in MT sufficiently to architect an actually secure enforcement model. Given the client is open source, I don't really see the point, anyway, since someone really interested in cheating will just get to, and there isn't anything to be done about it within Map Tools. So I figure you just have to play with people you trust enough not to cheat :/. Given limited time for development, I went features over security, and I would again were I to roll out another version, I suspect.

Anyway, I used the 3 stage combat setup basically because those are the 4e rules ;). Because I only implemented a limited set of features my data requirements were not large. I have a few json objects built as dictionaries for my data. I didn't have any speed issues or concerns given the limited size of things like the skills list. Serious data would require serious data entry, which is less than fun and something for which MT, again, is wholly ill-suited for. I don't really know how much data MT can handle via properties or in various string lists.

These are just a few of the detailed minutiae of MT of which I'm largely unaware. I haven't even played around with have multiple property sets.

Lee
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Lee »

Well, I understand what you mean; making a full framework in MT is never a walk in the park, especially when I first started out. It's the primary reason why I ended up writing "improvements" to the source, in order to make things easier once I return to framework design.

With regard to L5R itself, the 4e philosophy of "L5R, your way." has its ups and downs. It works for GMs that revel in making things up on the fly, but it's horrible for less creative fans, or for GMs that want the technical aspects as the RPG's designer(s) intended. Case in point: the forums are chock full of GMs coming around to ask what the design team would do on situation X or Y. Clearly, AEG couldn't have written two versions to satisfy both camps, but, IMO, it would have been better to have clear definitions on the books, and support material for "L5R your way" on the side, as opposed to how it is right now, flavor and "L5R your way" on the books, and support material for designer's intent on the side :lol:; which is why it is "hard" to push out an "official" VTT framework for it (my initial goal when I first started out on MT), when there're just so many interpretations for rules, and effects.

I'm a hardcore L5R fan first, and an MT supporter, second. I've been playing for years, but I'm seeing signs that the product base needs a little help, both on the CCG and RPG aspects. Part of my efforts on MT is to help with that. But, that's another topic altogether.

Belizan
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

I'm more a fan in spirit than in concrete detail. The system is weak, and has been in every iteration, really, but then I find most systems to be lacking :/. I actually think 4e may be the best all around rendering of the rules. I love the flavor, more or less, and the core initial content for the setting was fun, but I pretty much hate all the new fluff. The Kolat, the Lying Darkness, the Spirit Wars, Second City, Spider Clan, Second Day of Thunder, etc., etc. Saiaku. But, I still like L5R, which may seem like a contradiction :/. Anyway, I tried to run a game for some online folks I knew, and to that end built this framework, but as online folks tend, they never ante'd up with character concepts, in the large, at least. My concern with L5R is more that I just never see people playing it :(. Much like Iron Kingdoms, another setting I like, despite its flaws 8). I actually see more 7th Sea games than L5R. Scary. Anyway, my motivation in releasing it is mostly that... I wrote it, and maybe people will play it, implying more L5R games get run, and maybe I'll even get to play in one ;).

Lee
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Lee »

Have you tried to look for players in the official L5R forums? It seems there're a lot of players to find there. It's certainly a helpful community, to say the least. One thing that can be counted on are the "rabid" fanbases of both the CCG and the RPG. I'll get with you at a later point in time; I just might have something that can help.

Belizan
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Belizan »

I have a few downloads now, and the holidays are here, so I'm considering adding a few more features. My primary consideration is, "is anyone using this?" Are people using this framework? Anyone have any feedback? Would you like to see more features added?

For this next rev, I was thinking I would finish the character sheet and add skills to the prop sheet and character sheet (and plug-in values in dialogs). As a stretch considering it might then be worthwhile to finish the attack panel... and if I did that I might add Weapons... And then I might add a panel to edit/add skills and weapon lists in the framework "db" (json object dictionaries on the framework). Yeah, that might all happen. If there is interest.

So let me know if you either would like to see these features in the framework, or if you have used the framework and have feedback (I might address stuff in this rev). I'd like to know it's being used before I sink more weekends into coding it up 8).

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Xaelvaen
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Xaelvaen »

I'm actually rather new to L5R - just recently picked it up and my group's going through the workings of it to check it out. On paper, it sounds relatively statistically sound, so I'm a bit excited to try it out. Roundabout - I decided to give it a try thanks to Monte Cook's Numenera. Since AEG made a Numenera Thunderstone game for us Kickstarter backers of Numenera, I looked into their company and found L5R heh.

As far as custom html layouts for the frameworks, I made a 'template' a long time ago for an 'onTokenChange' based character sheet that I load into every campaign I create (because we play a -ton- of different systems, its a bit whim-based). I'd suggest taking the same approach. Personally I hate interfaces built into VTTs (like roll20; bleh) so the html work, while I despise that, I hate it less than limited interfaces designed by others that don't fit my needs. If you like, I'll give you my char sheet html and you can just backwards engineer the actual maptools script and keep the html layout, if you like - just mail me.
"An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person." - Leo Tolstoy

wargames
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by wargames »

I am interested in this framework but do realize that L5R is a niche setting and alot of L5R rpg players do not know about maptools.

wargames
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by wargames »

Going to double post to say I found some errors in the open combat frame, and open selection frame. Also it seems as if the unskilled rolls in the build STR roll doesn't work I get dice exploding.

Code: Select all

L5R.combat.buildCombatActionFrm 
UNKNOWN (-)
Count: 0
 
*No Args
    Error in body of roll.       Statement options (if any): h, macro("L5R.combat.buildCombatActionFrm@Lib:L5R")       Statement Body : ""

Code: Select all

L5RTarget.ui.statSheetCmp> tArgs:Token=C0A80170C88184DB47040000C0800140
L5RTarget.ui.statSheetCmp> tToken:C0A80170C88184DB47040000C0800140

Shosuro
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Re: RFC: L5R 4th Edition Framework

Post by Shosuro »

Hi
I am currently running a similar project. Currently I finished the rolling macro for skilled and unskilled, added macros for damage, Stances, gear, and combat but it starts to get really messy. There are a lot of exceptions when you want to include all the clan abilities.
I found some nice ideas in your to do list. Especially the Clan and School libs. I consider stealing those :wink: if you don`t mind.

Currently I am working on getting the attack macro finished. I am struggling with the special abilities of the Bayushi Bushi as I so far found no nice method to compare the initiative.
Apart from that I noticed I need to redo some stuff as Staves double Armor and several people can bypass Armor. Really messy.

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