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 aliasmask   Deity Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pmPosts: 7882Location: Bay Area
 Post subject: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:36 pm
For light sources, lumens=1 is the norm as far as I can tell. lumens=0 does nothing and lumens=-1 is darkness. What that means is tokens can not be see in darkness by the players. It makes the area soft fog if already revealed and prevents light from revealing FOW if not revealed.

Is there anything else? Is there a scale for lumens? Is there a vision type that can see through it?

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 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:17 am
That's pretty much it in a nutshell, but wait, if you buy now you'll also get...

I process all the lumens in order, that is lights are drawn from 0 to n using the absolute value of the lumens, eg 1,5,-10,-20,30,-40,50, etc SO your lights CAN overcome darkness and vice versa. Also, Personal Light is set at 100 so over/under that drives what blocks darkvision.

Note: There is a blurb in the campaign properties but it can be complicated so if it's still not clear let me know.

Quote:
lumens: An optional setting for the light with x equaling an integer that may be negative. If set to a negative number, the light will instead act as darkness and subtract it's area from the FoW. Lights are processed in order of their absolute value of lumens. eg. Darkness with lumens=-20 will cover over any light with lumens <= 20 and any light with lumens >= 21 will expose through anything with a lumens value of -1 to -20. *Note: Personal Lights defined in Sight have a lumens value of 100. So a typical sight defined for Darkvision will see through anything with a lumens value if -1 through -99. To overcome Darkvision, use lumens values <= -100.

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 aliasmask   Deity Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pmPosts: 7882Location: Bay Area
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:34 am
Ah, so if I have a light source (darkness) of -101 then that will block darkvision... good to know.

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 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:10 pm
Yep! I try and use spell/caster level for my lights.

so, a level 3 spell is 30, a level 4 ks 40 or -40, etc.

My lights as a sample...

D20
----
Spell - Dancing Lights (CL1): scale circle 20#8b6508 40#000000 lumens=10
Lamp - 15: scale circle 15#cdad00 30#000000
Campfire - 15: scale circle 15#997410 30#000000
Spell - Continual flame (CL3): scale circle 20#8b6508 40#000000 lumens=30
Spell - Daylight (CL5) - 60: scale circle 60 120#000000 lumens=150
Lantern (Hooded) - 30: scale circle 30#eec900 60#000000
Candle - 5: scale circle 5#a04f00 10#000000
Spell - Continual flame (CL5): scale circle 20#8b6508 40#000000 lumens=50
Spell - Light (CL1) - 20: scale circle 20 40#000000
Limited - 5: scale circle 5#008000 lumens=40
Lantern (Bullseye) - 60: scale cone arc=60 60#ffd700 120#000000
Everburning - 20: scale circle 20#8b6508 40#000000
Torch - 20: scale circle 20#330000 40#000000
Sunrod - 30: scale circle 30#ee7022 60#000000

Magical Darkness
----
Deeper Darkness - 60: scale circle 60 lumens=-130
Darkness - 10: scale circle 10 lumens=-20
Darkness - 20 (CL2): scale circle 20 lumens=-20
Darkness - 20 (CL4): scale circle 20 lumens=-40

Mood
----
Spire - 40: scale circle 40#18632d
Portal - 10: scale circle 10#19455e
Ambient (Dim) - 200: scale circle 200#0a0a0a lumens=10
Point Blank Range - 30: aura scale circle 30#ff004c
Mist - 15: scale circle 15 lumens=-80
Mist (Block darkvision) - 15: scale circle 15 lumens=-200
Ambient (Bright) - 200: scale circle 200 lumens=100
Fire - 5: scale circle 5#cc0000
Limited (Brite)- 5: scale circle 5 lumens=210
Purple - 15-30-80: scale circle 15#c900ee 30#480056 80#1d0023
Cavern Light - 100: scale circle 100#480056
Coral - 10: scale circle 10#62294b
Magical - 30: scale circle 15#8303ff 30#350035
Bonfire - 60: scale circle 20#ee7022 40#c6550f 60#8f3e0b
Dim Globe - 30: circle 30#000000

_________________
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 aliasmask   Deity Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pmPosts: 7882Location: Bay Area
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:08 pm
I just may have to steal this.

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 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:44 pm
Sure. Be mindful, strip out the "scale" keywords. I don't believe that made it in yet? (scale is new for vision/light which scales/adds the tokens footprint to the lightsource/vision, so a 5' candle shines 5ft around a medium token and still shines 5 beet beyond a huge one as well)

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 jackolas   Kobold Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:19 amPosts: 23Location: Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:12 pm
This is really nice new addition but it would be more powerful if we could have an option to change what vision can see

for example.
have a sight called "normal vision" and let it only see from 10 Lumens and up.
have a sight called "dark vision" and let it see from 0 Lumens and up.

now you can create light with lumens 0-9 that only dark vision can see.

is this a possibility?
because if this is the case you can recreate the actual rules of light in most d&d games.

anyway. love the work you guys done so far.

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 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:42 pm
Darkvision is coded as lumens=100 so yes you can revolve around that.

The vision idea is an interesting one. I can't think of what I would use it for personally but sounds useful.

Not sure how much work it would be at this time.

_________________
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 Madeiner   Cave Troll Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:05 pmPosts: 28
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:43 am
Is it possible to use this feature so that some tokens only appear when they are below a certain distance from the players?
How could i setup lights to accomplish that? I still want the map and other tokens to be visible normally

 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:38 am
So, you want all the tokens and map visible except for, lets say, token x? And token x will then show if it's within, say, 30 feet of a PC token?

I don't think there is a way to do that automatically. I've been wanting to something for a similar use case, namely, how to show Invisible tokens to only certain token (that have see invisibility) or within a certain light source, ie Invisibility Purge (30 ft radius).

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 wolph42   Deity Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:40 amPosts: 9410Location: Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:21 pm
you can use 'visible to owner only and then make the player user owner of the token when the token is within a certain distance of the token and disown when moving away.

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 Madeiner   Cave Troll Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:05 pmPosts: 28
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:04 am
JamzTheMan wrote:
So, you want all the tokens and map visible except for, lets say, token x? And token x will then show if it's within, say, 30 feet of a PC token?

I don't think there is a way to do that automatically. I've been wanting to something for a similar use case, namely, how to show Invisible tokens to only certain token (that have see invisibility) or within a certain light source, ie Invisibility Purge (30 ft radius).

All tokens visible in the sense that they CAN be visible if in range of a PC and not behind walls/fow etc. As "normal".
But some tokens i'd like to have some sort of invisibility, that doesn't work anymore once they get closer to, say 30 feet, of a PC. So yes, invisibility "fades" within a certain light source.

I was thinking maybe a very small radius negative lumens on the token which only covers itself, with the PC having a 30 feet radius higher lumens light?

All done in "realtime" while i move tokens around. Players basically should have a 30feet "revealing" light on them at all times.

 wolph42   Deity Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:40 amPosts: 9410Location: Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:50 am
as i said, you can achieve this with the use of macros and 'visible to owner only' setting. You can also wait for jamz to cook up a new elaboration of the current light system.

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 Madeiner   Cave Troll Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:05 pmPosts: 28
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:16 pm
I tried to cook something up and i've had at least some results, even if not perfect.

Set night mode, then made a PC token with a 60 feet normal (unspecified) lumens light.
I also added another light to that pc, at 11 lumens and 10 feet circle

I created a token, and gave him a -10 lumens with a very small size 2 feet circle.

PC can now see the token when at 10 feet or less. When above 11 feet up to 60, it can see a dark circle on the map that indicates it has no vision of the area.
Its not perfect (you know SOMETHING is there) but it's at least a way to hide the exact token without having to manually check for distances and applying visibility

I also tried having the token use a size 1 circle negative light, and using visibility=9 out of 9 for the token, so that you need to see all of it. However, it doesn't seem to work: i can see the corners of the token that is not covered by the small lights.

With a little more fine tuning, i could have used a 0.1 circle light with 100% visibility to basically have an invisibile token without making it obvious.

EDIT: apparently, i misinterpreted how the visibility tolerance worked. I thought it also meant that if you DON'T see at least N regions, you don't see it. It doesn't work like that.

 JamzTheMan   Great Wyrm Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:59 amPosts: 1680Location: Chicagoland
 Post subject: Re: [1.4.1.7] Looking for Guide on how to use LumensPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:34 pm
You "could" put a -lumen (darkness) light on invisible token, then put an appropriate +lumen that is greater than the -lumen. BUT, you will just have a dark spot on the map that hides everything instead of just a token so, probably not useful.

You will probably be better off doing it manually like wolph42 said.

Now, you *could* maybe automate this using onTokenMove and canSeeToken or other method to determine distance between target tokens after every move, then hide/show said token. (hmmmm....may have to code that for invisibility purge in my framework...)

_________________
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