Playing around with it for my first time.

[Big_Mac]

I was playing around with it. Trying to figure stuff. Here are the issue/questions. this testing was done with 0.1.b12

1) I only found one way to set a creature Init and that was by editing the creature.

2) In the edit of a creature are Roll, Modifier and Init suppose to be related?

3) If I reset an encounter all creatures are cleared, even if I uncheck Remove Players.

4) So I throw together a quick encounter, I can not save the creatures in the encounter as a group or save of an individual creature for later use.

Again these are just thoughts in trying to use it if someone has answers great.

[jay]

I was playing around with it. Trying to figure stuff. Here are the issue/questions. this testing was done with 0.1.b12

1) I only found one way to set a creature Init and that was by editing the creature.

Hmmm... did you start the encounter (Actions -> Start Encounter from the menu)? That will roll the initiative for you. There are some options that allow them to be entered manually too.

You can change the initiative by dragging the combatants and timers around. They will be placed at the same inititive of the combatant or time they were dropped on. You can use the move up and move down actions to move move a combatant around, which will also change its initiative. And then there appears to be a 'stealth' option that I forgot to add to the menus that will increment and decrement the initiative using the + and - keys.

2) In the edit of a creature are Roll, Modifier and Init suppose to be related?

Yes they are. Right after the start encounter action the Roll + Modifier = Init. This only applies right after the start encounter action, if you move things around the initiative changes but roll & modifier do not.

3) If I reset an encounter all creatures are cleared, even if I uncheck Remove Players.

That is a bug in the default game settings file. It will be fixed in the next build. Thanks for the catch!

4) So I throw together a quick encounter, I can not save the creatures in the encounter as a group or save of an individual creature for later use.

It was originally designed for you to create groups and then move the groups to the encounter. Later there were requests to go the other direction, but that functionality hasn't been imlemented yet.

There are 2 trackers that affect this. My question for everybody; is the ability to save the encounter as a group something I should add before release 1 is finalized? What about the tracker for synchronizing a group when the encounter is saved? Saving as a group is pretty simple, synchronization is going to be tricky.

Again these are just thoughts in trying to use it if someone has answers great.

Thanks! I always like people to tell me their experiences with init tool. It's the best way to make the tool better.

[Big_Mac]

Hmmm... did you start the encounter (Actions -> Start Encounter from the menu)? That will roll the initiative for you. There are some options that allow them to be entered manually too.

You can change the initiative by dragging the combatants and timers around. They will be placed at the same inititive of the combatant or time they were dropped on. You can use the move up and move down actions to move move a combatant around, which will also change its initiative. And then there appears to be a 'stealth' option that I forgot to add to the menus that will increment and decrement the initiative using the + and - keys.

Okay those helped. The option to manually enter Init rolls is not working when I started it rolled for all. That was with having the box check in option for Manual entry for players.

The dragging works partially, just can not drag to the bottom of the list.

When entering a group the Init Column Looks like its setting the initiative when it is the Modifier. Also would it make sense in that area to have the same full edit as you do in the Tracker?

I really like the tool I just have to play with the states to understand how they work. In one test I delayed someone and the character did not slide down to the next position when there was no change of state. I would think that this would push them down on the click on the Next step.

As for the save of groups I would like to vote for Saving it as a new group default. When I want to override my original group I just select the file and overwrite.

[Phergus]

There are 2 trackers that affect this. My question for everybody; is the ability to save the encounter as a group something I should add before release 1 is finalized?

Given that saving the encounter gives you most of functionality I think it can wait till next version.

What about the tracker for synchronizing a group when the encounter is saved? Saving as a group is pretty simple, synchronization is going to be tricky.

I wouldn't want the synchronizing to be an automatic operation and isn't synchronization basically just overwriting the existing group file?

I believe the purpose is to preserve the health/status of a party between sessions. Seems like it might be better to have a separate "status" file that would be applied to the base group file.

On a related note, why is IT asking me if I want to save the group each time I exit?

[jay]

Okay those helped. The option to manually enter Init rolls is not working when I started it rolled for all. That was with having the box check in option for Manual entry for players.

That is broken due to the same bug that was braking the reset option. You can fix it by hand by just going to Tools-->Game Settings-->Combatant Categories and clicking on the player check box for the categories Or you can wait for another build later tonight or tomorrow.

The dragging works partially, just can not drag to the bottom of the list.

This will have to stay broken until Java 6. The current Swing drag and drop support won't let me find out where the mouse is to handle this case. It is seriously bumming me out.

When entering a group the Init Column Looks like its setting the initiative when it is the Modifier.

Fixed in the next build.

Also would it make sense in that area to have the same full edit as you do in the Tracker?

If you are referring to the group tool window or the add combatant dialog there is a full edit mode. Just select an combatant and press the edit button next to the table or double click a row. Double clicking can be a problem some times since it might start editing the column, but if you double click on the image column it always works.

I really like the tool I just have to play with the states to understand how they work. In one test I delayed someone and the character did not slide down to the next position when there was no change of state. I would think that this would push them down on the click on the Next step.

That is what DMGenie was doing, and it was part of the original reason for making Init Tool. The original designers didn't like the combatant sliding down, and it would cause them to mess up the initiative. So what Init Tool does is place a state marker next to the combatant that is waiting and moves them over to the right of the column or list (if there is room) to show they aren't in initiative order. The GM continues the encounter until the owner of that combatant wants to go. Then the GM would select the waiting combatant and select the Wait States-->Go option (also on the bottom toolbar) and the combatant will be made the current combatant. That combatant's initiative will change to match the current initiative as well. Then the owner of the combatant can complete their turn.

As for the save of groups I would like to vote for Saving it as a new group default. When I want to override my original group I just select the file and overwrite.

There is both a Save and a Save As option in the file menu. I used the windows 'standard' keystrokes to make it easy for new users of the tool. But, if y'all want it to change it can be done.

[jay]

I wouldn't want the synchronizing to be an automatic operation and isn't synchronization basically just overwriting the existing group file?

Basically that is what it will be. Only items that came from the group originally will be ovrwritten, other combatants in the encounter are not added to the group. There is a slightly different structure due to the counts kept in the groups. so to save individual state each individual will be added to the group and the multi-combatant item is removed.

I believe the purpose is to preserve the health/status of a party between sessions. Seems like it might be better to have a separate "status" file that would be applied to the base group file.

That is what it is for. I'm afraid we're making it too complex to do what seems like a simple function. The idea I like was mentioned in one of the calendar topics. Basically, it suggested using an encounter to keep track of all the player's instead of a group. If the players split up just create a second encounter for those players. It works out really nice when the encounters start tracking the time of day. Each encounter is like its own time line within the campaign. It also helps keep track of those long duration spells that which can't go into a group. But the best feature is that it is pretty easy to understand.

On a related note, why is IT asking me if I want to save the group each time I exit?

It's a bug that I've fixed for the next build.

[Phergus]

...The idea I like was mentioned in one of the calendar topics. Basically, it suggested using an encounter to keep track of all the player's instead of a group. If the players split up just create a second encounter for those players. It works out really nice when the encounters start tracking the time of day. Each encounter is like its own time line within the campaign. It also helps keep track of those long duration spells that which can't go into a group. But the best feature is that it is pretty easy to understand.

Getting all the characters into a continous timeline where the encounters are part of that will be great.

[jay]

If I reset an encounter all creatures are cleared, even if I uncheck Remove Players.

When entering a group the Init Column Looks like its setting the initiative when it is the Modifier.

Swithced the column name to 'Mod'

Okay those helped. The option to manually enter Init rolls is not working when I started it rolled for all. That was with having the box check in option for Manual entry for players.

On a related note, why is IT asking me if I want to save the group each time I exit?

All of these bugs are fixed in build 14.

[Big_Mac]

Those fixes are great. Can the "Manual Initiative" window be setup to retain settings of size and position. The main reason is that when it initially open it is too small to display even just 6 PC's.

On the saving group idea, I was taking about an encounter automatically being saved as a group not saving groups from the group tool.

On the area of the Delays. Thanks for the clarification. Just a thought on the arrow for go can it be more of a GO type arrow instead of a refresh arrow. The other thing is should all of the icons be together in the middle instead of to 2 sides, when I first looked at them, I did not think they were related. Your response made me look at it more closely. That was when I figured out the buttons and their actions. With them being in the corners they look like some type of external function calls.

Last thought on initiative. When you do Next Initiative. Should that creature be selected as active(have focus).

[jay]

Those fixes are great. Can the "Manual Initiative" window be setup to retain settings of size and position. The main reason is that when it initially open it is too small to display even just 6 PC's.

I've fixed all the dialogs to remember their size. It will be in the next build.

On the area of the Delays. Thanks for the clarification. Just a thought on the arrow for go can it be more of a GO type arrow instead of a refresh arrow. The other thing is should all of the icons be together in the middle instead of to 2 sides, when I first looked at them, I did not think they were related. Your response made me look at it more closely. That was when I figured out the buttons and their actions. With them being in the corners they look like some type of external function calls.

These are all easy changes to make. What does everybody else think? Would this make it easier for a first time user?

Last thought on initiative. When you do Next Initiative. Should that creature be selected as active(have focus).

All of the functions except delete work on the current item if there wasn't an active item. It just doesn't show the box around it. I can add it back if it makes things easier.

[Big_Mac]

All of the functions except delete work on the current item if there wasn't an active item. It just doesn't show the box around it. I can add it back if it makes things easier.

The reason I noted it was the "Delay" buttons are grayed out until the creature is selected

[jay]

The reason I noted it was the "Delay" buttons are grayed out until the creature is selected

That's a bug. I'll fix it for the next release.

[jay]

Build 16 fixed the following bugs that were mentioned in this thread:

Those fixes are great. Can the "Manual Initiative" window be setup to retain settings of size and position. The main reason is that when it initially open it is too small to display even just 6 PC's.

I've fixed all the dialogs to remember their size. It will be in the next build.

All of the functions except delete work on the current item if there wasn't an active item. It just doesn't show the box around it. I can add it back if it makes things easier.

The reason I noted it was the "Delay" buttons are grayed out until the creature is selected

[jay]

On the area of the Delays. Thanks for the clarification. Just a thought on the arrow for go can it be more of a GO type arrow instead of a refresh arrow. The other thing is should all of the icons be together in the middle instead of to 2 sides, when I first looked at them, I did not think they were related. Your response made me look at it more closely. That was when I figured out the buttons and their actions. With them being in the corners they look like some type of external function calls.

This is fixed in build 18