RPTools.net

I'll confirm that I was able to load this with lmarkus001's latest Campaign Framework and both seem to co-exist without any problems.

I have to compliment Plothos on the clarity of his instructions.

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SMALL ISSUE: If you take the auto-pilot off and you specify the number of slots per level.. and you're also setting up a specialist wizard.. there is a conflict. You've already specified the exact number of slots per level that you want with all modifiers taken into account, but the part that governs the specialist wizard will add another bonus slot on top of that.

I realize that adding a slot is RAW, but the whole point of taking the auto-pilot off is that you don't want to run with RAW. You want to set the number of spells per slot yourself.

So.. when you take the auto-pilot off, could the bonus slot gained from being a specialist be disabled?

(Why? Because Pathfinder RPG has it's own number of bonus spells for a Specialist Wizard. If I can just set the total number of spells available per spell level, like advertised, that's no problem.. but when you come to a specialist it adds another bonus spell to the "maximum" I already specified.. if it doesn't make any sense let me know and I'll try to explain again)

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This is more of a feature request, but maybe you want to address it as a piece of changed code, rather than implementing it in your build.

I'd like the user to be able to cast Cantrips and Osirions as much as they want. I still want them to prepare their cantrips, but I don't want them go away after they've been cast. After a normal rest, the player could prepare new ones, but they can cast the ones that they have prepared as much as they want until they do.

Again, that is because in Pathfinder, that's how Cantrips and Orisions work. You cast them as spell-like abilities until you prepare different ones.

If there is a way to do that by just changing a few lines of code, that would be fine.. I realize you're not advertising a "Pathfinder Spell Manager" but the systems are really close to each other. These couple tweaks and I'm almost there.

Pretty please?

Hmm, good catch! I don't have any specialists in either of my campaigns so I never would've noticed this one.


I'm not sure about this one. Wouldn't it be easy enough to just say that the player should never click the link that goes with any 0-level spell? That way they don't go away.


I know the cleric domains are changing in PF Final, but I think at-will cantrips and orisons are staying the same. So something in this regard would be useful.

I haven't looked at plothos' code yet, but checking lmarkus' "system type" property and then simply removing the "cast" macro link from 0-level spells might be sufficient.

You know... the simplest solutions do get past me sometimes. Especially since we're on Vent and the mostly just tell me that their casting a spell (and 9 times out of 10 it's detect magic.

Yeah, just telling them not to hit those buttons could work. Though I may experiment with that code suggestion you made.

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Azhrei,

On a side note: this Wednesday morning they're going to release their preview of the wizard and finally disclose what they're doing for the Universalist School versus the Specialist Schools. I tried to get a hit but they're staying quiet till then. The Beta contradicts itself in two places; in one place they say if you prep a spell from a forbidden school you lose your benefits till you forget it. In other place they say you can't learn from the forbidden school period.

This is simply awesome! Between this, Azhrei's spell work and Imarkus001's Pathfinder framework I'm not dreading losing my DMGenie crutch when we switch to PF now.

This Spell Manager actually suprpasses the one thing we always wished that DMGenie had...the ability to easily send new spell lists to the DM.

Thanks!!!

I'm psyched.

Plothos, I've been (trying) to go through your spell mgmt system one page at a time. I was thinking I might try to introduce it to my players next week, but since you'll be unavailable to help with big fixes in the short-term, I may wait until our following game session.

I clicked the Auto-Pilot and chose 7 levels of cleric. I was asked for two domains and cure vs. inflict, which I answered. Then I clicked Cleric Class Details and the two domains were not already chosen in the dropdowns. It appears that they are recorded correctly, just not pre-selected.

While navigating between pages I sometimes got "lost". In retrospect, clicking "Learn Spells" takes me to the "Learn" page (duh!), but some of the choices are not so clear. For example, "4b. Forget a Spell" doesn't show at the top of the form which page I'm on; perhaps it's a sub-page of one of the others? Ditto with "Reclaim Slot".

I'm having a problem with SPD. Using the 7th level cleric, I should have 6 0-level spells and multiple of levels 1-4 as well, but the 1-4 levels are all zero. It's almost as if I didn't use the Auto-Pilot!?

I'll keep testing over the next few days.

Plothos and Azhrei,

I have been playing with this thing all night, trying to work out how to adjust the Bonus Spells correctly. I thought the broken was just bugged, but actually I got it working correctly. It is quirky, but I'll show you where and how...

And a lot of it involves the SPD link, and that might shed some light on Azhrei's Cleric Problem (or maybe not, but it can't hurt).

Okay.. to follow my example, you need to know my base values. I'm working on 7th level wizard with 23 intelligence. (Yeah, I know that's sky high, but he's got elven racial bonuses, maxed his INT right from from the beginning, and later got a +2 Headband of Insight)

So in Pathfinder, as a Conjuror Specialist he should have:

• (4) Cantrips with no bonus spells
• (6) 1st level spells with (1) Bonus spell that he can cast x 3 times/day. For simplicity it'll be counted as 3 bonus spells but they'll all be the same.
• (5) 2nd level spells with (1) Bonus Spell
• (3) 3rd levels spells with (1) Bonus Spell
• (2) 4th Level Spells with no Bonus Spells

Okay.. This would appear to be the first step


Then you go to the next menu.. where it will tell you to enter the maximum number of spells per level including Bonus Spells



The problem with this is what it is really saying is that you have to enter the total number of spells including bonus spells from attributes. Not necessarily from other sources. In the case of the specialist wizard, it's gonna force 3.5 bonuses on you, which is a single bonus spell per level, every level. So I'm going to end up with one too many spells per level.



Now if you go to the SPD link here.. (Spell Per Day) You'll end up here...



The top choice to takes you to same menu as before when you set the spells per day. No surprise there. Let's assume we correct our spells per day to what they should be, including the attribute bonus, but not specialist bonus.



Now we can address the Specialist Bonus here...


It takes a little fiddling but you can get around it.

I could find reclaim easily enough. That is for when you prep the incorrect spell, and you just want to swap it back out.

However, when I learned the wrong spell on accident, I had to go all the way back to the main page to find the Forget link.

It wasn't so much the "I can't find it" issue as the "it doesn't look the same" issue.

I understand his plan: the top-level menu choices on the main page are the ones that are shown across the top of the dialog. But then from one of those pages it's not always clear where to go to find another of the sub menu choices. Perhaps adding some tooltips to the navigation links at the top? The tooltip could show the menu item and the sub choices that show up on the main page? When I hover over the "Learn" link, I'd see the three entries from the main page that are part of that menu choice?


Ditto.

I appreciate your report about the SPD issue. I don't have any specialists so I doubt I'll see a problem in that regard. But it's great to find ambiguous wording and get that cleaned up -- those kinds of fixes don't require any code changes, just updated text.


Oh, and the problem I had with the spell slots being wrong? That was User Error. I had copy/pasted the properties into my Pathfinder campaign, but I left out the stats (Str, Dex, ...) because lmarkus already has them defined.

For some reason, accessing the "Wis" property (without using getProperty()) didn't pop up a dialog box asking for the value of "Wis" (which is what I expected to happen)?! Instead it just used 10 (not sure where it got that from though, as hidden properties that were already on the "test token" shouldn't be accessible without using getProperty()). Which means that no spell slots could be used as casting a spell requires a Wis of 10+spell level. So that was operator error.

Instead of replacing all of plothos' three-character attributes with Lindsay's longer ones, I just created a "Wis" property with the default value of "{Wisdom}" (and ditto for the other stats). At some point I'll probably go through and do a global search-and-replace on plothos' code since that should be a smaller set of changes than the campaign framework. And if it breaks, it'll be easier to start over too.

I like how plothos has separated out each class into its own set of properties as it will make it easier to update an attribute of a specific class. But it also means that property names are hard-coded all over the place in his macros so that changing an existing class to work differently might be tougher. I think this is a standard design trade-off since I don't see any simple way to be both easy-to-create-classes and easy-to-tweak-existing-classes at the same time. (All I can think of is to store the property names in yet another property. But that means lots of eval() code in every macro that uses any of the values and that's ugly and potentially slow.)

You know, I was this close to doing this, but I wouldn't have had time before leaving for my trip. I also backed off it because, while you're right that the point of setting SPD not on auto-pilot is to devaite from RAW, I'm not going to be able to accommodate every deviation, and it seemed to me unlikely people would want to increase the number of bonus spells per day for specialist wizards. I guess pathfinder does just that, which means there will be a large number of people who want to do this. (though later on you say something about being able to cast specialty spells as often as they like? Not sure.) Can you explain to me exaclty how pathfinder devaites from 3.5 in terms of spec wizards, so I can work this up. The workaround you lay out below is going to work (and btw, that link through the SPD link in the prep menu you're using is letting you pick between main menu options 3 and 7a, I believe. The downside to this is it won't work with reclaiming. Don't worry, knowing that pathfinder needs this, I'll get on this option. But i'll need to know how pathfinder does things.


Interesting. Again, this was designed for 3.5, and I don't know pathfinder. I don't see an easy way to code this into the manager in such a way that both ways of dealing with cantrips work concurrently. I might just have to make up a pathfinder version of the manager. That might be the simplest way to go. But I'll need you guys to fill me in on it with lots of feedback like this.

Thank you very much, Micco. If people are using this and finding it helpful, I'm very glad. Looks like I might be making a PF specific manager. I'll keep y'all posted here.

This would be pretty easy to code, actually. I'll take a look at it for the PF version. Do all wizards get this in PF? Clerics too? What about druids, bards, etc? If it's all classes for all 0 level spells, it'd even easier to code. If it's only some, I'd just have to throw in a router macro sending to the original casting menu for or to the new code. Pretty simple. I just need to know how it works. (If you want to do it yourself, what you're looking at is the casting menu macrolinks for 0 level spells would call a different "cast wrap" macro, one which spat out the report but didn't adjust SPD or erase prepped spells. Pretty quick fix, as it's just telling the manager not to do something it used to be doing. Which amounts to erasing code.)

I'll stick a link to spell reclamation on the learn page when I can.

Yeah, I'm not all that happy with the links at the top. I had limited space up there, and found putting all the links made it cluttered and confusing. On the other hand, useful links aren't always there. (Hence the four added to the spell prep menu.) I see where you're going with the tooltip thing, but here's one issue with just doing that. If the tooltips just show where the submenus are, you're not really avoiding the issue of having to go to the main menu to click them, and if you're going there you can find them there. So I'm not seeing a huge gain from the tooltip (though of course no loss but the time it takes to code it in). I'm more partial to just learning where people would like a quicklink on the page like those on the prep menu and do it that way.

Yeah, that was originally clearer and much more wordy, and when I shortened it I guess it got confusing. I'll need to reword that menu.

That should only be in the macros used for autopilot. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe it's only in the ACL change - WCL change group down around macro group 8 or 9. If you find one macro that references Int, Wis, or Cha, then the family of macros to which it belongs should be the only place those stats are used in the entire set of code.

Yeah, I considered allowing a houserule class somehow, and my mind imploded. It'd be a nightmare to code and would require rewriting everything here. Even adding another hardcoded class woule require adding a ton of macros. But I do plan on adding other common classes from 3.5 splatbooks at some point. Favored Soul, Hexblade, Warlock, etc.
No promises on when that will happen.

This is looking pretty sweet. In 3.5 using various splat books there are 4 variations of wizard that I have seen.

Standard wizard regular bonus spells.

Standard Specialist Wizard +1 spell per day if able to cast that level

Focused Specialist (Complete Mage, I think) 1 focus School, 3 restricted schools gets 3 bonus spells per day of the specialty school if they use a regular slot for a specialty school spell.

Alternates Builds in various book (UA, PHB2) where you can lose bonus spells as a specialist for some other ability.

Plothos,

Just some fast answers:

Paizo is releasing their final core rules on August 13th. Right now, I'm going off the Beta rules. I don't think much will change.. but I'll hold off say what is and what is not "the rule" for just a little bit.

Cantrips and Orisions are castable as often as you like, once prepared, and I do not forsee that changing. Any that would be abusive, they either changed or got rid of.

Is it cool if we wait a bit? I'd hate to tell you one thing and see it change.

As it is, I am getting the wizard specialist to work right now, it just takes some fiddling.

But the Clerical Domain Spells will need some adjustment. However, even more than the wizard, I'm now concerned there will be some final changes in the next two weeks.