RPTools.net

The current interface seems horribly clunky and hard to read right now. I remember back in previous versions, each line item in the main window had very little information such as name, Init mod, and current Init number or something similar. With the current interface, each line item is just information overload. I mean, is anyone really going to need to see the Environment, Organization, and Treasure for every single combatant every single round? Really?

I would much rather the display be split into two panes. One pane should have basic simple information about each combatant (default AC (or flat-footed if the init has not come to that character yet at least once), HP(current and max), current init number, and maybe one or two other items and should list all the combatants one per line. The second pane should display all the detailed info on whichever combatant is currently selected.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to turn Init Tool into DM Genie and I have my problems with their interface too, but the basic concept of dividing the data into two areas, one for info that is immediately useful in most every situation and another for detailed info when you really need it, is a solid design concept used in hundreds of applications throughout the world.

I know that no major functionality changes are going in right now, but what I'm asking for is not really a change in functionality but rather in how the information is presented to the user. Any likelihood of getting this in sooner rather than later?


Shannon

Shannon - all of that is user-definable currently. Go into Tools/Game Settings and then the Custom Properties tab and you can remove or re-order any of those you don't want to see.

The Index Card view I believe will also provide you with the type of display you are looking for.

Initiative Tool has changed a lot recently. You'll want to look over the new Game Settings dialog.

With this last release I added a new game settings file (which contains the settings that Phergus mentioned) that has more of the D&D data in it. I did this so that I could include the new lookup file within the build which the team thought was something that I should have set up by default. The lookup file provides access to the monsters SRD and I wanted to make it as complete as I could. That is where all of that data came from.

If you go to the View menu and uncheck the Show Custom Properties values it will go back to what it used to be. You can also click on Show Index Cards in the view menu and it will do a split pane, one with just the combatants and timers and the other a more detailed view of the combatant including all of the timers. The third thing you can do is go to Tools-->Game Settings-->Choose Game tab, select the game name 'Default Init Tool' and click the open button. That will return it to the way it used to be w/o any custom properties at all. Or you can follow Phergus' suggestion and set it up exactly with the data you want to see.

I agree with you when you say that there is too much data on a line in list mode. I added the View menu to let the GM choose what they wanted to see. Originally I had all the different data set visible so that a new GM could see what was being added as they changed the settings. With the new default containng a large number of custom properties it is information overload. While I can't really remove the data from the line, I can set the default value to not show it. I think that would be much easier on the new users.

While we're discussing it, what does everybody believe that default view settings should be? List/Table/Index Card view? Hide or show initiative, alarms, players, and/or custom values? Alignment on or off?

Thoughts?

I prefer the Index Card view and the rest of them I have been leaving in their current defaults. So I'm pretty much good to go as is.

Probably should make the defaults make sense for DnD use though.

A new user of Init Tool (such as myself) should not have to reconfigure the interface to make it functional. The default settings should be those that are going to provide the greatest benefit to the greatest number of users.

I think defaulting to Index Card instead of List view would be of greatest benefit but I also think the default Index Card view needs to be reworked so the entire column width is not being taken up by a field that will only ever have at most 2 digits. People should not have to scroll up and down to get critical information. Scrolling for things like Notes and Advancement and other non-critical data is fine but info that has an impact on a battle needs to be readily available in the default screen.


Shannon

Nice dream but how do you propose that IT determine what game system the user is running?

And if no one has built a settings file for a game system what should IT do?



Which would be a stripped down display with just Initiative shown as in the Default Init Tool settings file.

As game settings are a recent addition to IT now is a good time to let Jay know exactly what information you think should be included in the DnD game settings.

I think the default should assume D&D just as MapTool is designed around the D&D game mechanics for things like movement, vision, Area of Effect templates, etc.


I wholeheartedly disagree that the greatest functionality is provided by minimizing the amount of information. I think the majority of users will likely be D&D players and the default should be modeled with that in mind, displaying the game-appropriate information in a clear and concise manner.


I think all the ones that have been included already are fine. My problem is not with the amount of information, but rather in the way it's presented. When the tool defaults to having every thing displayed and crams it all onto one line per entry, it comes across to the user as information overload and gives a first impression of being user-hostile instead of user-friendly (to steal a term from the 80's).

I think defaulting to the Index Card view instead of the Line view would be a good start. Modifying the Index Card view to present the info more clearly would be a wonderful improvement. Jay, since you wrote that export script for DM Genie, I'm sure you're at least passingly familiar with it so that might be a way to start. Take a look at how the main combat page is configured to get some ideas for how to re-arrange the info in a presentable fashion. I'm certainly not suggesting that you copy their layout, but just taking a quick look at it will show you that it is emminently more presentable than a 1-column layout.


Shannon

I agree with what you are saying. It would be nice to have a concise set of data with all of the fields set to resonable lengths and displayed where the GM expects to see them. When we move on to IT 1.1 there will be a way for the GM to set the display to exactly what they want. If they are so inclined there will be a tool for them to use to create their own panel. At that time we can all talk about getting a default index card view for D&D and any other game.

Until that gets here, IT needed a generic way for new players to see their custom properties. That is what the current index card does. It doesn't make any assumptions about the game being played or the data needed to play it. All IT can tell about a property is it's name, whether it is a string or an image, a name to show the user, if it is hidden, and a description. That just isn't enough information to decide how a panel should be layed out.

The neat thing is that IT can display it how the GM wants it. There will be a default for D&D included with the tool, and I encourage you to start a thread in the IT forum to figure out what that should look like. I'll also be happy to help anybody create a game settings file for their favorite game.

Agreed. This was just added in the last build, and it always takes a little while to get things right afterwards.

Agreed, that will be in the next build.


I wasn't all that happy with a one column layout either, but it reflects the amount of information avaialable about a property. You just can't guess field lengths or how they are related to each other. And I can't just hard code something or IT loses its usefulness for all of the other games. Even the SRD data has values for fortitude saves that aren't 2 digits, but fairly long strings. But this functionality is coming in 1.1. Probably in the first build. The format I've been using to test this functionality is DMGeine's character sheet. It's a little too busy, but when IT gets there everybody will have a chance to help decide what the defaults will look like.

I guess my frustration comes from my ignorance. I installed IT months ago, found it buggy and difficult to use, and set it aside. I'm just now coming back to it and I see that a lot has changed and my assumption is that all these changes happened over the course of the time I was away.

From what Jay and Phergus have said, it seems these changes actually just happened and are still being ironed out. That being the case, my expectations are now suitably lower and more in line with recently developed new features.

In that light, please view my above comments as poorly constructed suggestions on possible improvements instead of whiny bitching about why it's not better already. =o)


Shannon

Fortunately great strides are made with pretty much every release so I expect it won't be too long before a more newbie friendly set of defaults will be provided for DnD players.

In the meantime the DnD players should review the list of Custom Properties being displayed and come up with a minimal set. The other properties can be flagged as hidden so that if a user wants them displayed they only have to enable them.

Build 16 addressed some of the issues brought up here: