Veggiesama's Framework (D&D 4e) -- Old Discussion

[Darklord]

Hey Blakey,

Sounds awesome I look forward to your framework, the token maker sounds excellent, at the moment I use the Devaintnull token parser for creating enemies but I must admit to preferring the Veggie style Macro's.

Cheers,

Daniel.

[Blakey]

Hey Blakey,

Sounds awesome I look forward to your framework, the token maker sounds excellent, at the moment I use the Devaintnull token parser for creating enemies but I must admit to preferring the Veggie style Macro's.

Cheers,

Daniel.

Hi Daniel,

As you can see in THIS POST, I don't use Veggie's macros on the monsters. So I'm not going too be spending time building them I don't think.

Instead what I'll have when I'm done is a frame which pops up for every monster moused over which will display the monster's HTML ( as is shown on the pick in the above linked post). Butu then I'll have every attack and damage roll as a hypertext link which, when clicked, will make the relevant attack or roll the relevant damage. It's how my current FW does things and I much prefer it as it means less windows. That might not be too well explained but I'll explain more when I release the FW sometime in the future.

Anyway, botton line is, my FW probably wont have macros for monsters.

Blakey

[Darklord]

Well that looks great! Just like the Monster manuals etc. Looking forward to it.

Daniel.

[RGCrab]

Nice to see other people taking Veggie's great work and attempting to improve and extend it. At this point I've learned the language and have been doing a number of additions to the framework, mostly centered around states and player characters being more comprehensive. I've even gone so far as rebuilding the targeting array Veggie made and allowing fighters to do checkbox selection in the target selection dialog for which targets of the attack they wish to mark. My framework is specializing the other way from Blakey's though, with my framework assuming a basic understanding of maptool and java commands amongst the users. It is great that this framework is robust enough to allow modifications and revisions with wildly different approaches.

[Veggiesama]

Blakey, you got my blessing if you want to branch out with a new framework based on mine, but I have to ask: how much has changed? Is it a total reworking or a few updates/fixes? Is it at all backwards-compatible with current tokens and campaigns?

My main concern is how you are changing the way GMs control NPCs. Currently both NPCs and PCs are controlled with similar HP macros, state macros, power macros, etc. However, if there's one way of controlling PCs and a different way of controlling NPCs, then it throws another learning curve hurdle in the user's way. Your monster statblock frame looks great, but maybe PCs should have a similar "command frame" to establish a unified feel? Or alternately, simply layer the frame over the existing macro setup (ex. Click a macro button to open the statblock frame, allowing two ways to take over the monster reigns).

I have to say I feel kind of sorry for anyone pouring through my code (I still have nightmares about the targeting macros), but more power to you if you can clean it up and improve it.

Anyway, I took a look at your TokenMaker post, and I am very impressed with the scope. I definitely feel that the weakest part of my framework is the enormous setup time involved when transcribing powers from a book into textboxes. Keep up the good work!

[DDK]

Latest Lib:Veg and Campaign Properties attached.

So do I just download and load up the regular Veggie's campaign and then replace the Lib:Veg and Campaign Properties files with the ones you've provided? Do all players have to do the same (I can't remember if all players had to have Veggie's in the first place or not, it's been a while since I last used Maptools).

[Veggiesama]

Hi folks. I am going to take a hard look at the framework soon. I'd like to modernize it for the latest books and fix any long-standing bugs.

Feel free to post or PM any fixes/suggestions you'd like me to work on.

Things I'm looking at now:

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Crit on a single attack leads to both damage and crit damage being displayed on the same line
- doesn't occur with Multiple dmg rolls (non-AOE) checked

Minus HP macro doesn't save properly (- turned into ?)

Misc variables still suck

Change aura colors (as per hybrid)

Initiative decimals for dexterity mod

Fix macros to be "Use ToolTips for Inline Rolls" friendly
- initiative looks really ugly

Improve saving throws
- prettify with skill/attack/dmg-style tooltips

Improve compatibility with hybrid campaign
- state names

Investigate monster parser

Investigate miscellaneous tools for copying tokens to new maps, etc.

Investigate unofficial veggie 2.2

Change "unspecified" to "other" for targets

Monster resting should be /self

Remove maximized dice? (http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=15218&p=161791#p161791)

Double-check code for showing weapon name on attack

Add option to remove a thrown weapon / faster way to equip new weapons

[Zalarian]

Here are a few other things/thoughts/observations I found working with your framework, DN's and the hybrid file.

1. Applying states - If applying states could be configured to either automatically apply and/or show a link to add/remove the state that would be good. Often I see powers either do not have the state applied because it applies on miss as well or it always applies and then has to be removed.
2. Capability of applying multiple states is a nice feature
3. I see many powers such as marking that automatically apply the state have to have an unnecessary attack roll just so the mark is applied
4. Most likely a feature of the system but editing a power after it is used makes the power accessible again without resting
5. Capability of undoing last damage/healing, short/extended rest are nice features
6. Psionic Power Points, Paladin Lay on Hands, Boots of Feystep lacings are implemented using custom code (the fact that custom code is available and done through macro buttons does allow for some pretty flexible things that I can do with your framework such as reminding me/others when I action point what happens, creating an interface when I take damage to apply temporary hit points afterwards automatically, etc)
7. This flexibility may make conversions challenging since changes will be done not only in custom code but on the macro buttons themselves.

[Thanlis]

I'd like to be able to make damage rolls without making attack rolls -- useful for (say) Wall of Fire.

[Veggiesama]

6. Psionic Power Points, Paladin Lay on Hands, Boots of Feystep lacings are implemented using custom code (the fact that custom code is available and done through macro buttons does allow for some pretty flexible things that I can do with your framework such as reminding me/others when I action point what happens, creating an interface when I take damage to apply temporary hit points afterwards automatically, etc)

As a matter of fact, I would love to see some of the Custom Code you guys have been employing. At best, I could include your code snippets within the framework as macro calls or user-defined functions, but at least, the most common macros could be downloaded and imported by others.

(For anyone who doesn't know: A macro or macro set can be exported with a right-click. You can import macros by right-clicking an empty space in the Selection panel. Execute the power macro once, and the framework will recognize it as a new power macro and add it to your character's PowerLibrary.)

[Thanlis]

I did a psionic power point implementation:

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14469

[Veggiesama]

1. Applying states - If applying states could be configured to either automatically apply and/or show a link to add/remove the state that would be good. Often I see powers either do not have the state applied because it applies on miss as well or it always applies and then has to be removed.

You'll be happy to know that I'm overhauling the whole process of applying states. Selecting unowned tokens wasn't possible when I first worked on targeting, but now it's a lot simpler.

I think I will remove "Apply this state" from the primary/secondary/tertiary attack tabs. Only with marks do you need to always a state, round after round (and if you switch targets, there was no way to quickly remove the old mark). Instead I am working on this:

clicktogglestate.png (223.94 KiB) Viewed 2628 times

You will be able to choose 1-5 quick toggle states (maybe more?) in the Execution tab, which will appear as little macro-links in the chat. So you could toggle Marking your target on/off, but also apply Slow and Combat Advantage for when you successfully hit, or just Slow if you miss. Or whatever your power says.

Does that seem like a good idea?

[Zalarian]

I think that will helpful.

Also, I just ran into another issue in a recent game. When monsters were created, they were accidentally made using the PC token template. This meant that folks were able to see more information on the token when hovering over it than what they should be able to. Someone indicated that changing the properties from the PC to the Monster would cause errors since some things were different.

[Veggiesama]

Almost done...

Later, I am going to generate a few sample characters in v2.3 to hunt for bugs and think about new features. Send me a PM if you want to help.

[Veggiesama]

Version 2.3 is out!
Most important features: Associated States, New "My States" Frame, Psionics, Attack roll vs. Defense Comparisons, Custom Code upgrades, Custom Rest Code, AND MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Download here: http://gevearth.pbworks.com/f/Veg2.3.zip

Important Update Notes: To update a token from v2.1 (or v2.1.5) to v2.3, you will need the .mtmacset files extracted from the .zip. Then follow these easy steps:
1. Impersonate token
2. Type [VegPC21to23()] for PCs or [VegNPC21to23()] for NPCs
3. Follow pop-up and chat room instructions
Note: You will lose any changes you made to your token's default macros (like Basic Attack (Melee)), so fix those changes again after the upgrade.

The above steps aren't required but highly recommended if you want to benefit from some of the new changes.

If one of your powers ceases to work after the update, simply click Load a Power Macro, select it, and press OK twice to create it again. That should do the trick, I hope!

CHANGE LOG:

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v2.3
-----
- added: new macro powers for Player Characters (aid another, charge, ready action, etc.)
- added: initiative rolls have decimals for tiebreaking (props to Zalarian)
- added: initiative rolls autosort after each roll
- added: new pretty tooltip for initiative rolls and saving throws
- added: more aura colors, so multiple overlapping auras (of different sizes) can be differentiated
- added: token states should be compatible with DeviantNull v5 / (future) Hybrid campaign
- added: new token states, removed a few others, changed the names of many
- added: custom rest code for short rests and extended rests, works similarly to Custom Code
- added: Psionics! MaxPP property added to character sheet, while CurrentPP refreshes on short/extended rests
- added: Augmentable powers subtract psionic power points when used; warn when PP depleted; no custom code required
- added: Psionic power points show up on mouse-over StatSheet, but only if you have at least 1 MaxPP
- added: Power macros have option to show trigger/hitAppend/miss/effect/sustain/special/customRows in chat room
- added: Two more custom rows for power macros
- added: optionally, attack rolls can now be compared to PC and/or NPC defenses, showing (Hit) or (Miss) after the attack roll
- added: My States / Target's States macros now show every state's picture (code borrowed from my SR4 framework)
- added: can now change weapon at time of attack (props to Blakey)
- added: New Custom Code functions and examples for players to use
- added: click-toggle Associated States when executing powers- changed: reorganized and cleaned up most dialogs (especially power creator); added basic HTML for better readability
- removed: apply state to target when executing power (associated states fully replace this function)
- removed: Fast Whisper campaign macro and token macros
- changed: "Action Point Used" state added to character when spending an AP; removed on rest
- changed: reorganized a few buttons on the PC and Monster tokens
- changed: powers now remember your last temporary atk/dmg bonuses (props to Blakey)
- added: Show / Hide Token button on monsters to quickly conceal and reveal them in combat
- changed: Skill / ability checks no longer use a /me description
- changed: In power macro creator, Multiple dmg rolls (non-AOE) now defaults to ON.
- fixbug: Monster rest macro now uses /self instead of broadcasting the rested monster's stats to the chat room
- fixbug: Minus HP macro name now saves properly
- fixbug: "Damage bonus only" option under "Damage dice" in power creator now works properly
- ... plus other stuff i forgot