4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

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JoeNotCharles
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4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by JoeNotCharles »

D&D 4E line-of-sight (and line-of-effect) works by drawing lines between one corner of a source square to all 4 corners of a target square - if one or two are blocked, the target has cover, and if three or four are blocked they have superior cover. (I guess if adapting it to a hex grid, you'd draw lines to all 6 corners of a target hex, with 1-3 blocked meaning cover and 4-6 meaning superior cover.)

A handy tool would let you click on one corner - not square - of the grid, and a target square, and draw lines to all corners of the target square. They'd disappear as soon as you select a different tool. That way the user can judge whether they're crossing any token, object, background drawing, etc. without having to set up topology on the map. This tool could be used for playing on quick map sketches or improvised maps, or when adding objects on the fly that you hadn't planned on beforehand.

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thecyberwolfe
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Post by thecyberwolfe »

Heh - my players would sure appreciate that - they have to keep reminding me that 4e goes by the corners and not by the center of the origin square.
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trevor
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Post by trevor »

I'll add a tracker for that
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thecyberwolfe
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Post by thecyberwolfe »

trevor wrote:I'll add a tracker for that


Drink!
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JoeNotCharles
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Post by JoeNotCharles »

I just added a patch implementing this tool at http://tracker.rptools.net/browse/MT-313

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Mortani
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Post by Mortani »

Nice. Works well. Perhaps while setting the source, though you don't lock them to a corner, make a key combination that snaps to a corner? For example, press ctrl while clicking to snap to a corner like the line drawing tool?

darkadelphia
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Post by darkadelphia »

Guess I'm a n00b, but how does one apply this patch? Also, if I apply it, but my group does not, will it cause compatability issues?

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Full Bleed
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Post by Full Bleed »

darkadelphia wrote:Guess I'm a n00b, but how does one apply this patch? Also, if I apply it, but my group does not, will it cause compatability issues?


The patch has been sent to the developer (Trevor.) He'll take a look at it, and baring any problem, will probably put it in the next beta release.

Patches for MT are not user applied.

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Post by dorpond »

I wasn't successful at applying the patch this AM, not sure why, but I have to say that I have wanted something like this for a long while now. 3rd edition bases a lot of coverage rulings off corners too. To have a tool were we can quickly and easily see those lines would rock.

I am sure the path issue I am having is my lack of knowledge with Eclipse. I tried to apply it but the last 2, of three items are unchecked. I check them but I never see anything pertaining to the patch in MT when I run it. I'll have Trevor step my through it tomorrow.

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Post by dorpond »

OK, Trevor helped me apply the patch. :)

First impression: "How do I use this?"
Comment: It isn't user friendly enough as is.

As I used it though and read the little instruction note on the bottom of Maptool, I was able to get it working.

Final thoughts:
I like it and I think it would be a very helpful tool, however, I think there are things that must be done to make it more use friendly before implementation.

Suggestions:
When we first select the tool, have the tool work like the first three spell template tools in that it pinpoints grid intersections only. Once we select that intersection with the left mouse button, the tool will then change to look like the last three spell templates in that the whole cell will be highlighted (square for square grids, hex for hex grids). Once we select the destination cell (again with the left mouse button), then it draws out the lines. Once it draws out the lines, the tool assumes you are done and reverts back to the way it works when you initially hit the tool icon. So we could easily select a different corner if needed and select destination cell. I like using space bar to show the clients but think it should work the same way as the space bar "pointer" works in that it only shows when I am holding down the space bar and goes away when I let it go - just trying to keep consistancy there.

Very good start though - I will be excited to have something like this implemented.

Oh yeah, layering - we definately want to get that layering down so that the lines always appear on top of tokens. I see you wrote that as a bug though so you are definately aware of it.

heathan666
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Re: 4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by heathan666 »

well i hope this gets to working cause it will be AWESOME!!!!!!!
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Jshock
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Re: 4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by Jshock »

Does this do anything for freeform maps? A lot of wargames start measurements from a model's base edge, it sounds like it might be a simple fit for edge to edge measurements.

heathan666
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Re: 4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by heathan666 »

yes please do tell how does someone apply this patch. I'd like to check it out seeing as i'm on hiatus from running my game.
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SpaceShot
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Re: 4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by SpaceShot »

I've actually been looking for this, but the rules for line of sight are ever so slightly different from cover. When drawing the lines for cover, a line does not count as blocked if it merely touches a corner or side of a blocking square. However, line of sight IS blocked merely by touching a corner or side of a square.

Still, did this ever make it into a maptools build? I noted the original request and some of the posts on this are a little old. Maybe I can try putting in the patch into the current codebase or something.

What I do today is just draw lines right on the map and then undo the drawing. It actually doesn't take long enough to be a showstopper.

I think what would really be user friendly is if you just saw who had cover from your PC and whomever was out of line of sight just disappeared.

But I know this is pretty system specific and I'm not proposing to code something into MapTool for just one gametype.

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Rumble
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Re: 4E / D&D Miniatures simple line-of-sight

Post by Rumble »

I'd worked a little bit on a line of sight/target designation tool, that would draw LOS lines from one corner of a token to the four corners of another token. However, unfamiliarity with MapTool (and mouse interfaces in Java) stonewalled me, and I haven't worked on it in months.

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