[1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

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Is this happening during your games?

Yes
10
67%
No
5
33%
 
Total votes: 15

dorpond
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[1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by dorpond »

Hello my good friends!

As many of you have found out, Maptool 1.3B60 has uncovered a nasty bug that effects networking stability and is causing a lot of headaches for GM's during gaming sessions.

This thread is only for discussing these or related issues:

*** Note: Edited after 1.3B63 was released***

- Players will drop and the nobody knows about it. *Uncertain if fixed*
- Players are moving tokens and nobody is getting any updates because they are really disconnected. *Uncertain if fixed*
- Players get disconnected and cannot reconnect. *Fixed in B63*
- The GM host session stops responding when a player hangs. *Fixed in B63*
- Nobody is able to connect back to the host unless the host restarts. *Fixed in B63*
- Users are dropping a lot more than usual.

If you are one of the users experiencing these issues, we want to hear from you! We want to know as much of your system and networking environment as possible. If you can, please provide as much as your environment as possible like:

- Maptool Build Number
- OS
- MT Startup Memory Settings
- Networking Card
- Router
- Video Card
- Java version (example: build 1.6.0_17-b04)
- Make/Model of PC
- Internet speeds (http://www.speedtest.net/)
- If you use other chat apps along with Maptool
- If you use any VOIP apps (voice) along with Maptool
- State if you were hosting the session or a client.
- What framework, if any, you are using.
- Are you and your friends using macros during game?
- Who is your ISP
- Do other apps disconnect when you disconnect from Maptool?

As much info you can give, the better. :)

Let's join together and talk this out. Hopefully we can lock down on this buggy bastard!

[edit]
I compiled all the complaints pertaining to this bug so that it can reviewed and hopefully we can narrow down a common ground better:
http://dorpond.rptools.net/B60%20Network%20Bug%20Compilation.pdf

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torstan
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by torstan »

My lock ups occurred on b60.

My OS: MacOS X 10.6.2 Snow leopard
MT Memory settings: using max memory size of 768MB
Network Card: AirPort Extreme 802.11 a/b/g/n
Router: Netgear WGR614
Video card: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M
Connected via wireless.
Java Version: 1.6.0_15-b03-219
Make/model: Macbook
Internet speeds: It was around 1.3MB/s down, 0.24MB/s up.
Other programs running: skype
Hosting the session
Not using a framework.
No macros used during the session.

Running at work with a fast internet connection with one group I have had no trouble at all. Running at home with a different group and a slower internet connection has been the problem.

One player took a long time to connect. I thought it was the size of the campaign file (around 13MB with one very large map). I had him download the actual campaign and open it to cache the images. This did not solve the problem.

He experienced lag and I experienced garbled voice chat over skype with him, and with the other player. Updates I made were transmitted to one player, but were delayed to the problem player. It was quicker to take a screenshot and upload it to a google group than it was for the player to see the updates in maptool. He then got dropped after the latency had been getting worse.

Shutting down and restarting maptool did not fix the problem. He still took around 10 minutes to get past the loading screens for the campaign and the specific map, even though he had all the images cached (I assume).

His internet connection is slower than that of the player who was not having problems. It took him a few minutes to download b60, so I guess that makes it a download speed of a few hundred kb/s. He says he can't watch streaming video over his connection. He's running Vista (I think).
Last edited by torstan on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Full Bleed
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by Full Bleed »

Torstan, most of what you describe above (especially with Skype being garbled with that same player) points to a poor connection with them or a bandwidth issue on their side.

Just to clarify:

1) Have you (could you) try your faster work connection with the problem player?

2) Does that player ever get disconnected or can you not even get started with them? And if they do get disconnected, have you run into any of the issues above that Dorpond describes?

3) Have you tried hosting wired from home?

4) Can you ping their IP from your house? I'm curious what the result of that would be.

5) You mention, "lock-ups." Are you using that as a general term for not being able to progress because that player hasn't received all the assets, or has your client actually locked up?

6) And finally, did you have any of these issues with an earlier version of MT or is this a relatively new game/player? Has that players ever been able to connect with you without any problems?
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

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torstan
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by torstan »

We have played in the past without any problems at all. I've been running games with this player for 2 years. The only time we have had this problem has been in the last session when we upgraded to b60.

In answer to the other questions:
1. I haven't, but it's a good idea. I'll try to organise that.
2. Yes to the first two conditions. This happened when they dropped off. As I remember now this did happen once with the other player. After they started having problems I started getting problems with the other player as well. That particular problem disappeared on restart, but the problem player continued to have trouble connecting.
3. I haven't but it's worth a shot. Our timezones don't really match up so I'd have to have a shot at it over the weekend. I'll see what I come up with.
4. Ditto to 3.
5. The player had received all the assets as I sent them directly. However, at no point did my server side maptool freeze solid. It was just difficult to make any progress. On the other hand, the player in question would get to 98% loading and maptool would crash. I assume that means lock solid or crash out. As he had the assets already I'm not sure this is an asset transfer issue.
6. Previously we've been able to play with no problem. This is a new situation - although he was clear that his internet connection has deteriorated. However I do remember that he complained about his internet quality before but has had no problems with maptool.

Hope that helps. I'll do my best to set up extra testing with him. I realise that this is slightly different symptoms to some others. However I felt it was close enough to merit a mention (and I'd really like to figure out what it was that sank my Sunday game!)

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by dorpond »

Torstan, thanks for the info.

Those upload speeds are a bit spooky on your end, but like you said, you have been playing for a long time without issue until B60.

Very helpful info - thanks again.

[edit] For a test, I suppose you could try putting your campaign in the repository so your upload bandwidth doesn't have to take such abuse. It wouldn't be a solution but it could tell us a bit - for example, is this only happening on hosts with bad upload speeds.
How to use my bundled artwork (MT1.3B60+): http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11759

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torstan
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by torstan »

The fact that one player had no problems and quick load times and the other had problems suggests to me that it's not necessarily and upload speed problem, though I'll be the first to admit that I don't know enough about the code to say that for sure.

One question - when you open a campaign locally (from a campaign file on your own hoard drive), does maptool cache all the images in the campaign file, or does it only cache all those images on the map(s) that you have viewed? If it's the second then sending him the campaign may not have cached all the relevant assets.

However, once he had seen the final map, and started having lag, we closed and restarted. In this case he still had long load times for the campaign and crashes. In this case he certainly had all the assets cached.

I've since uploaded it to a repository, but I'm not sure that will help. If it does, then we certainly do know the source of my problem (though perhaps not the wider issue). I'll see what I can do to test that in the next couple of days.

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by LaserWolf »

- OS : Windows XP SP3
- MT Startup Memory Settings : default (512/64/2)
- Networking Card : Intel(R) PRO/1000 PL
- Router : Netgear WNDR3000 (via Motorola SBV4200 VoIP Cable Modem)
- Java version : 6 update 17
- Make/Model of PC : Lenovo Thinkpad T60
- Internet speeds (http://www.speedtest.net/) : 14.0 Mbps down / 0.2 up
- If you use other chat apps along with Maptool : none
- If you use any VOIP apps (voice) along with Maptool : Skype

I've experienced this issue with two separate players, both living in the vicinity of Ann Arbor, MI (I'm in Durham, NC). In both cases the players were complaining of spotty internet performance well before the issue occurred.

Notes:
  • Issue begins with the player with the spotty connection becoming disconnected from the server. This is not reported server-side, but the player's client is apparently aware of this because the player seems to be aware of it. In at least one case (but not both, I think) the player was also disconnected from Skype.
  • No further chat or map updates are transmitted to or from the server, but neither does the server report a global disconnect. At this time, the transfer widget usually reports full green (as in, constantly sending data). Skype chat is still functional.
  • Closing MapTool appears to be the only viable option when this issue is encountered. When this is done, an empty error box appears. There is no information in the box and indeed the box isn't even fully drawn (as in, you can see the applications behind it). Clicking to close the box only results in an identical box appearing, seemingly ad infinitum. At this point it is necessary to kill the application via the OS.
  • The only error shown in the log is a 'UPnP release' error, possibly thrown while MT is trying to close.
  • In both cases the issue has occurred in the midst of combat, with nothing particularly unique about the encounter.
  • I and my players use very lightweight macros. We have never experienced stack overflow errors in this campaign.

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LaserWolf
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by LaserWolf »

Reading the earlier posts, I should probably highlight that in both cases we were well in the middle of combat. No assets should have been transferring at the time.

It's also worth noting that the Speakeasy Speed Test reports my upload speed at around 375 kbps (rather than the 200 reported by Speedtest). My PS3 reports 350-375 as well, so that's probably the more accurate number.

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by Full Bleed »

dorpond wrote:- Internet speeds (http://www.speedtest.net/)


That site is pretty cool. I usually use DSLReports, but I have more server choices with this one.

It's worth mentioning that they have a sister site http://www.pingtest.net that will give a snapshot of line quality and packet loss. I'd suggest that people do that test too when they encounter a problem to see if they've got any other issues at work.

If someone is having significant packet loss I would go to dslreports and run a 24hour smokeping to see how pervasive it is and send along that information to their ISP.
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by LaserWolf »

Full Bleed wrote:It's worth mentioning that they have a sister site http://www.pingtest.net that will give a snapshot of line quality and packet loss.

Good tip! Thanks! FWIW I didn't show any packet loss on the quick test.

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torstan
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by torstan »

To add to my previous data - the problem player had a connection speed when tested of 0.7Mb/s down. 0.3Mb/s up.

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by dorpond »

I created a PDF of the compiled reports pertaining to this issue. I added the link to the original post.

What I find rather interesting is that there arn't many people posting to this thread which makes me think that it really isn't affecting many people or it is fixed in B62. Either that or people are just sticking to 1.3B5x
How to use my bundled artwork (MT1.3B60+): http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11759

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by Thanlis »

dorpond wrote:I created a PDF of the compiled reports pertaining to this issue. I added the link to the original post.

What I find rather interesting is that there arn't many people posting to this thread which makes me think that it really isn't affecting many people or it is fixed in B62. Either that or people are just sticking to 1.3B5x


I haven't had it happen again since my first report. Which is weird, but.
Reed (halfling sorcerer P3) // Collin (human fighter P2) // Cine (eladrin psion H2)
Sirath (deva shaman H1) // Alesk (dragonborn cleric H3) // Kevin (halfling barbarian H1)

dorpond
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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by dorpond »

Thanlis wrote:I haven't had it happen again since my first report. Which is weird, but.


Can I ask what version you are using?
How to use my bundled artwork (MT1.3B60+): http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11759

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Re: [1.3b60+] Network/Boot Bug Discussion

Post by Thanlis »

But of course! b60: here's the original bug report.

viewtopic.php?p=126804#p126804

I played again under b60 without this happening; I have not played under b61 or b62 yet, although I should be playing with b62 this Monday.
Reed (halfling sorcerer P3) // Collin (human fighter P2) // Cine (eladrin psion H2)
Sirath (deva shaman H1) // Alesk (dragonborn cleric H3) // Kevin (halfling barbarian H1)

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