Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

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DrVesuvius
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by DrVesuvius »

skester wrote:It's really wierd for me and hard to explain at times. For example, on this page I see Font colour to the right (hey, it's spelt correctly).

fontcolour.png


Take the top row. 3rd column. when I compare it to the 4th column, I can't tell the difference. However when I compare it to the 5th column, I can. BUT at the same time the 4th and 5th columns look the same to me. I can only tell the difference from the 3rd and 5th (barely, I actually have to put one on the other and go "oh it's lighter").

And 2nd row, 3rd, 4th and 5th look the same as the 1st row, 3rd, 4th and 5th. I'm looking at the picture at 800% right now trying to tell the difference.

Going down,Row 3, columns 4 and 5 look the same as each other, and very close to the ones above them. Row 4, column 1 and 2 look the same as each other (and I have no idea what colour it is truthfully). And Row 5 columns 1 and 2 look the same as each other. And this is zoomed in to 800% so it's easier. Leave it small and there's even less distinction.


Yep, we're seeing it slightly differently. On that chart if I look at pretty much any two squares side by side on any given row I don't immediately see any difference between them. With the first two rows if I really focus I can pick out a difference for a moment, but as soon as I stop concentrating it goes. On rows 3-5 it gets worse so that any three squares look identical, and I can only just pick out any difference between the first and third of the trio by concentrating. No problems telling the difference between any rows though.

It's extrememly confusing and frustrating. But at least I can tell the difference between red and green traffic lights (the green looks whitish while the red is definitely red).


Funny, that's always the first thing people ask "How do you get on with traffic lights." I just tell 'em "Red's at the top, isn't it?" and roll my eyes at 'em. :lol:

JonathanTheBlack wrote:DrV, by color-blind mode... I mean extra text descriptions that remain hidden unless cb.mode is activated. For example...

w/o CBMode: Mage's Fireball (Arcane, Standard Action * Ranged Burst 10, Implement, Fire)
w/CBMode: Mage's Fireball (Arcane, Standard Action, Encounter * Ranged Burst 10, Implement, Fire)

The background behind that line of text would be dark red in my framework. That tells people who aren't color-blind that it's an encounter power. I like to use visual clues as much as possible to limit clutter and lots of text.


Thanks for considering those of us with colour-blindness, it really is a refreshing change. But to be honest if you just pick colours that would give different grayscale values on Akodo Makama's chart, it ought to work just as well and save you a lot of coding.

You going to put all that power description on the button itself? How about a concise/verbose mode that hides/reveals all of the bracketed text? Or put the bracketed text into a tooltip? Just a thought.

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JonathanTheBlack
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by JonathanTheBlack »

The button for the macro only contains Name, Action Type, and Range Type. Aka, Fireball, Standard Action | Ranged Burst. Each button also has a tooltip that shows trigger, what kind of targeting it uses (one ally/enemy/target, each ally/enemy/target in burst), along with some other information. The place that I'm looking at colorblind mode is for the combat log to the right of the chat window. Instead of putting in the usage type (At-Will, Encounter, Recharge), I could condense it by one word and let the color of the titlebar show what it's usage is.
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kitsunemeio
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by kitsunemeio »

I'm BG color blind so this topic instantly caught my attention. It's rare that a programming community even acknowledges the existance of colorblind people so I'm impressed. Also, I do have a hard time with certain things and usually have to pull my roommate or something in to tell me what's what. I'd <3 you guys forever if you did something like that.

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Azhrei
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by Azhrei »

kitsunemeio wrote:I'm BG color blind so this topic instantly caught my attention. It's rare that a programming community even acknowledges the existance of colorblind people so I'm impressed.

Yeah, we have a pretty good group of people here. By far the best community I've ever had the pleasure of being part of!

Also, I do have a hard time with certain things and usually have to pull my roommate or something in to tell me what's what. I'd <3 you guys forever if you did something like that.

Something like what? Telling you "what's what"? Sure, we'll do that. Just ask your questions. Although we might recommend the screencast tutorials first (main site, click Tutorials in the toolbar, then the top link).

Welcome to RPTools!

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darkrokr
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by darkrokr »

DrVesuvius wrote:Green text on Red is a lot harder to read, Red text on green is marginally less so

Yeah, green text on a red background (and vice-versa) is not fun to read, even for those who aren't colorblind.

While it's on my mind, would this possibly pose any problem for colorblind players? (I favor a darker color palette for my finished macros.)
color example.png
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aliasmask
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by aliasmask »

FYI, you can use HTML in the names of macros like <b> and <font size=4> to improve readability.

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darkrokr
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by darkrokr »

…I honestly did not know that. That is remarkably handy.

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Full Bleed
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by Full Bleed »

darkrokr wrote:While it's on my mind, would this possibly pose any problem for colorblind players? (I favor a darker color palette for my finished macros.)

Keep in mind that there is a lot of variability with color blindness. One person could look at your screen shot and see little to no problem, while another might look at it and wonder what you are even looking to compare (because they don't see that the "inflict" and "heal" macros are different color buttons to begin with).

So while I am RG colorblind and can still tell the difference, others may not.

This I can say: The difference between the colors of the buttons will not "jump out" to even mildly RG color blind people like it does to you. But the biggest problem is that you are using Red and Green at the same contrast/brightness level. You should more greatly vary the LEVELS of the colors if you feel that you must use Green and Red. That is, use a darker shade of red and a lighter shade of green (or visa versa).

In this way, if someone is terribly RG colorblind they can still differentiate between buttons based on the luminosity level. In layman's terms, if they identify both button as the "same" color, they could still identify that one button is lighter than the other... So that damage is dark and heal is light.
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darkrokr
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by darkrokr »

I'll keep those points in mind. Thanks for the tips. …though the macros in that screenshot shall be for my use only, as the GM; my players shall have token macros for their own use once I've finished all the others.

username
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by username »

Usually monitors prvide ways to turn themselves into grayscale. In case you can't find them (like I can't on this laptop:-)) make a screenshot and dump it into gimp/photoshop. Turn to grayscale. That gives you a pretty good estimation how something would look for a fully color-blind person. And it doesn't take all that long.

(Approx. 5% of all people are color blind in some form, so expect some everywhere.)

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silbrulf
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Re: Scripting/planning ahead for colorblind gamers...

Post by silbrulf »

Akodo Makama wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:54 am
The encoding for that receptor's pigment is found on the X chromosome, so any given male can only have one type. But women can have two, so they can distinguish between colors that don't even exist for men.
To confuse it even further...
Abnormalities in fetal development can result in men very rarely having those traits. It almost certainly creates other vision problems. (An example; I can see more of some colors, but green and brown camo looks like neon green/yellow and black leopard print. Drs never determined the exact cause, but the "can you spot the soldier" pictures and a few real tests proved it... *shrugs* one-in-a-don't-bother-counting-chance.)
Still learning macros, so anything in my code I could do in a simpler way would be appreciated.


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