praise and criticism

Amaril · Post by **Amaril** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:39 am

Trevor, I love using MapTool and promote it whenever I get a chance. I think the work you have done is amazing and seriously competes with products being sold by others. I also want to commend you on doing this for free. After being burned by RPG software tools that are underwhelming, buggy, overcomplicated, seemingly abandoned, or any combination of these, I cannot justify making such investments.

I post my criticisms in an attempt to be an end-user advocate. These types of products can get caught up in a flurry of new features targeted to or requested by a vocal minority. Development becomes fast and furious and casual users are left in the dust in regards to bugs, workarounds, and features. It has happened with E-Tools and Dundjinni. In these cases, the products and their developers are left with a user base of a handful of individuals rather than a broader audience as the more casual audience drops off in frustration or lack of time to invest in the product. (Ever visit CMP and Dundjinni's forums these days? It's the same handful of individuals in each of them.)

In the end, I greatly appreciate your hard work, as do many others, but be cautious about making those same mistakes that others make. As long as your product is a solid robust one with decent resources for support, you're work will continue to be appreciated by your users and many more users to come.

mikey · Post by **mikey** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:50 am

You have hit on something very true. I own both of the fore mentioned products, and I must agree I fealt left out, especialy with E-tools. However, I feel, RPtools and the Battlegrounds programing teams are very much (in-tune) with thier clientel. Both products encourage user input and are unbelievbly quick in responding and at times implimenting suggestions.

I think critical analysis of the assorted RPtools programs is appreciated and needed. The only area of concern that I noticed is that at times I see nit-picking going on, but I am aware the nit-picking does encourage good communication, so I guess it is a necsessary evil.

PS Talking about nit-picking we need a spell check on these forms for dopes like me! Man I can screw up some spellings!

Mikey

Post by **trevor** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:51 am

Thanks for the post Amaril !

I actually depend on people like you to keep things in check. Please be as vocal as you can about things you see that need attention. If you feel something is going in the wrong direction, please let me know. If things start to feel a bit overwhelmingly complicated, please let me know. Which you have already, and is greatly appreciated.

It's already had an affect, I'll be going through the trackers and hammering some longstanding bugs before moving on to new features.

Post by **dorpond** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:59 am

trevor wrote:Thanks for the post Amaril !

I actually depend on people like you to keep things in check.

That is very true. We all have to remember the Trevor isn't a gamer at all. He doesn't use his tools every week around a gaming table or over the internet (although this has changed recently due to Snikle game). So that being said, Trevor really depends on voiced opinions. This product is directed by the community (and by the other members who founded RPTools who happen to play weekly).

So keep us posted with ideas, bugs, annoyances and what-not. Trevor needs you!

Post by **trevor** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:04 pm

dorpond wrote:We all have to remember the Trevor isn't a gamer at all.

It's ok, the doctors tell me I still have a couple years left, and my family does their best to make my remaining days comfortable. *cough* *hack* *wheeze* No, no, don't worry about me, I'll catch up after I've caught by breath ....

Heh, seriously though, "at all" is a bit strong

Steel Rat · Post by **Steel Rat** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:05 pm

Well, he IS a gamer, he's playing in an extremely slow-paced game on my site (hdrpg.com)

.

Post by **trevor** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:08 pm

Steel Rat wrote:Well, he IS a gamer, he's playing in an extremely slow-paced game on my site (hdrpg.com) .

Yeah, we're taking our time, winding up, getting ready to smear a bunch of slavers all over the pavement ! WOOO ! Watch your step, you don't wanna get any slaver goo on your shoes.

snikle · Post by **snikle** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:11 pm

I came to MapTool after using another vtt, and being a very vocal supporter of that product (in fact helping start FUM to support it).
The main reason I came over to MapTool, besides the fact that it rocked, was Trevor. From the outset he was friendly, responsive, intelligent(!), mature, and an amazingly dedicated programer. I have to say that I probably talk to the poor guy (read: annoy him continually) nearly every night and I am honored to be able to work with him and contribute to RPTools any way I can.
Kudos to Trev!

Steel Rat · Post by **Steel Rat** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:20 pm

And he never gets pissed off. I think he's an android.

Post by **trevor** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:21 pm

snikle wrote:I am honored to be able to work with him and contribute to RPTools any way I can.
Kudos to Trev!

Whatever man ! I'm glad to get the help making it rock even harder !

Post by **giliath** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:52 pm

Just so everyone has a glimpse behind the scenes.

While I am not particularly vocal on the boards, Trevor, Dorpond and I constantly discuss features and how they are implemented. One of the things we constantly discuss is how to make sure that features don't overwhelm existing functionality. In my opinion MapTool is complete from the perspective of "replacing the battlemat", and that was our goal when we started nearly 2 years ago. All new features get measured against that basic goal.

(I currently game every week using MapTool and have GMed using it many times.)

Dracorat · Post by **Dracorat** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:05 pm

If features don't get implemented because it is not watered down to the lowest common denominator of users, Ill be very sad rat.

Amaril · Post by **Amaril** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:25 pm

Let me clarify something. I'm not against features. I love features, and will often enough be one to propose new features. I am against leaving bugs lingering to plague inexperienced users or users who don't lurk in the forums and read every single post. I'm also against new features being developed and adding to the list of bugs to squash. Finally, I'm against lack of documentation for a continuously building list of features and bugs.

For example, if a new user were to suddenly download one of the three versions of MapTool available (i.e. final release, release candidate, and development release), that user might be baffled by light, topology, vision, facing, stamps, backgrounds, etc. because there is no documentation on what those features do, how they are properly used, or how they interact if at all.

It's not really about bringing MapTool down to the lowest common denominator as much as it is brining the users up to an appropriate level of understanding and usage. If developers don't consider the new user, then they end up with a product that is only used by a vocal minority and the product becomes exclusive in its audience.

Anyway, I think MapTool is awesome, as well as the other RPTools. I encourage their use when I can, and I've even been pitching to WotC to release higher resolution maps from their adventures and supplements specifically for use with MapTool (mentioned by name with hyperlink and all). I guess I got really spoiled by Paizo's free Dungeon Supplements.

Post by **trevor** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:29 pm

Amaril wrote:Let me clarify something. I'm not against features.

For the record, this came across very clearly to me, so no worries about that

The point is to balance bug fixes vs new features. A very good point

Post by **dorpond** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:41 pm

Dracorat wrote:If features don't get implemented because it is not watered down to the lowest common denominator of users, Ill be very sad rat.

I wouldn't worry DracoRat, Giliath is simply saying is that we want Maptool to be a battle mat replacement and new features are OK as long as it doesn't change that. I see nothing out of the ordinary with the current requests that would prevent Maptool from growing in a very pleasing direction. As long as our enhancements don't take away from the original goal, everything is fine. As long as users can opt to not using those enhancements and still use Maptool at it was in 1.1, all is good. What we don't want is forcing people to use the tool a certain way and forcing features. That is all

A good example are the recent note tags that Trevor is implementing. If we take out the * of the token configuration, they won't show up so basically the product will work just like it did in 1.2. If people don't want to see that stuff, they don't have to. That is the way we like it