Map limit

Thoughts, Help, Feature Requests, Bug Reports, Developing code for...

Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei

Forum rules
PLEASE don't post images of your entire desktop, attach entire campaign files when only a single file is needed, or generally act in some other anti-social behavior. :)
Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Map limit

Post by Braelen »

I have been putting together a campaign and have reached 50 maps in the campaign. Half Player and half DM. I does not appear to want to add more maps. Is this a problem with Maptool or with my computer?

User avatar
aliasmask
Deity
Posts: 8603
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Bay Area

Re: Map limit

Post by aliasmask »

I didn't think there was a limit. When you try to add a map, what happens? Error message, nothing...

You can also export unused maps and delete from campaign if 50 turns out to be a limit. You can then re-import them if needed later. Another thing I do is have a new campaign save file for each session. I then delete old maps knowing I can get them from an older save. Not sure if I've ever needed to, but that's an option too.

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: Map limit

Post by Phergus »

The only limit to the number of maps is memory.

Campaign with 55 maps.
Screenshot 2019-12-01 09.23.44.png
Screenshot 2019-12-01 09.23.44.png (7.63 KiB) Viewed 705 times

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4519
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: Map limit

Post by Full Bleed »

Phergus wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:27 am
The only limit to the number of maps is memory.
Perhaps this could be quantified.

MT most certainly does not allocate the entire memory profile of each available map. So if this user is getting stopped at 50 maps it's got to be the combination of the memory usage of the current active maps and some additional minimal overhead generated from each additional map in the campaign. This is a limitation that I don't think I've ever seen discussed. Previously, I've been led to believe that the principal impact of adding additional maps to one's campaign is the size of the campaign file and that memory usage was almost entirely limited to what the active (visible) map uses.

It's too bad that MT doesn't break down memory usage/allocation a little more clearly for users so that they could identify where memory problems are.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: Map limit

Post by Phergus »

MT 1.5.8 on my system with a single empty map is using ~100MB.
With 54 empty maps it is using ~1612MB.

So, map overhead works out to about ~28MB. Give or take. YMMV. TANSTAAFL.

But that doesn't account for the overhead of each token, object, drawing, VBL element and so on on each map as the entire campaign structure from the XML file is in memory as various Java objects. A fairly trivial campaign of mine has an XML file, which has very little in the way of game data stored in it, that is 17MB and is certainly more when loaded into memory. It has 7 real maps plus a staging map with just a background image and then the library map which just has tokens on it. In contrast, that 54 map campaign file has an XML file that is 200K.

For most users you can then throw in the tokens with the entire rule system for a game embedded in them as macros and various data structures. Maybe that is 10MB and maybe it is 1GB of memory used.

MapTool is written in Java, not C. It doesn't have to allocate and track memory for everything. The JVM does that. MapTool doesn't know how much memory is being used for this token or that map.

Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Map limit

Post by Braelen »

When I try to add a new jpeg to the background I get the red cross appear. I have tried reinstalling, embedding the maps in a folder within the resource file or just dragging them from their place on my drive. I have tried deleting all the DM versions of the maps so now only have half the maps in there but it still keeps rejecting backgrounds. I have two campaigns I am using the one which is working is 784,255KB the problem one is only 220,637KB. This only appears to have started since I upgraded to 1.5.7 but don't know if that has anything to do with it.

Merudo
Giant
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:06 am

Re: Map limit

Post by Merudo »

Braelen wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:04 pm
When I try to add a new jpeg to the background I get the red cross appear. I have tried reinstalling, embedding the maps in a folder within the resource file or just dragging them from their place on my drive. I have tried deleting all the DM versions of the maps so now only have half the maps in there but it still keeps rejecting backgrounds. I have two campaigns I am using the one which is working is 784,255KB the problem one is only 220,637KB. This only appears to have started since I upgraded to 1.5.7 but don't know if that has anything to do with it.
Does it reject the background for a brand new Campaign?

Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Map limit

Post by Braelen »

Started a test campaign and placed about 25 jpegs, from problem campaign, with no problem then started to give red crosses again. Moved to backgrounds from previous campaign and realised that I had been using .png files which of course are much larger these would go in with no problem. I placed about 5 more files without rejection. Will convert all my jpeg's to png's and try again.

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Re: Map limit

Post by Phergus »

Braelen wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:24 pm
Will convert all my jpeg's to png's and try again.
It has nothing to do with that unless there is something really broken about those JPEG files. Everyone uses JPEG files for maps, background textures and so on.
  • What version of MapTool?
  • What operating system?
From the Help Menu select Gather Debug Information and post the results here.

Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Map limit

Post by Braelen »

I am using1.5.7 and windows 10. My campaign that was working has now started throwing out of memory reports at me and the backgrounds are red crosses although tokens still appear. How do I revert to the preious version of Maptool and still open my campaigns? Only had this problem since update

Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Map limit

Post by Braelen »

reverted to 1.5.6 now appears to be stable. Ran a campaign yesterday with no problems and have added more backgrounds to my new campaign with no problem. It's making me think that maybe there is an infinite loop somewhere in 1.5.7?

User avatar
Full Bleed
Demigod
Posts: 4519
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 am
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: Map limit

Post by Full Bleed »

Braelen wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:43 pm
reverted to 1.5.6 now appears to be stable. Ran a campaign yesterday with no problems and have added more backgrounds to my new campaign with no problem. It's making me think that maybe there is an infinite loop somewhere in 1.5.7?
As far as I know, you're the only one reporting this issue, so it doesn't seem like there is a related bug.

I'd be interested in knowing what memory settings you were using. But you didn't share the requested Gather Debug so it's hard to know if that was the problem.
Maptool is the Millennium Falcon of VTT's -- "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

Braelen
Kobold
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Map limit

Post by Braelen »

=== MapTool Information ====
MapTool Version: 1.5.6
MapTool Home...: C:\Users\Rodger\.maptool-rptools
Max mem avail..: 1 GB
Max mem used...: 545 MB
Custom Property: -DMAPTOOL_DATADIR=.maptool-rptools

==== Java Information ====
Java Vendor.: Oracle Corporation
Java Home...: C:\Users\Rodger\AppData\Local\MapTool\runtime
Java Version: 10.0.1

==== OS Information ====
OS Name........: Windows 10
OS Version.....: 10.0
OS Architecture: amd64
PATH...........: C:\Users\Rodger\AppData\Local\MapTool\app;C:\Users\Rodger\AppData\Local\MapTool
Number of Procs: 4

==== User Information ====
User Name: Rodger
User Home: C:\Users\Rodger
User Dir.: C:\Users\Rodger\AppData\Local\MapTool\app

==== Network Interfaces ====
Display Name..: Software Loopback Interface 1
Interface Name: lo
Address...: 127.0.0.1
Address...: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1

Display Name..: Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
Interface Name: eth1
Address...: 192.168.1.36
Address...: fe80:0:0:0:9d7d:6b68:73ca:b15e%eth1

Host Address...: 192.168.1.36
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.1

==== Locale Information ====
Country.: United States
Language: English
Locale..: English (United States)
Variant.:

==== Encoding Information ====
Default Locale: en_US
Default Charset: UTF-8
file.encoding: UTF-8
sun.jnu.encoding: Cp1252
Default Encoding: UTF8

==== Display Information ====
Number of Displays: 2
Display 1: 1920x1080(32)
Display 2: 1366x768(32)

==== Internet Gateway Devices ====
No IGDs Found!

reverted to 1.5.6

User avatar
aliasmask
Deity
Posts: 8603
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Bay Area

Re: Map limit

Post by aliasmask »

1 GB seems a bit low. I would probably raise that and see if your problem is fixed. These are my settings.
Attachments
MT default mem.jpg
MT default mem.jpg (57.37 KiB) Viewed 516 times

krevett
Cave Troll
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Map limit

Post by krevett »

Indeed i've had new versions memory usage sometimes going up by just scrolling the map, and twice the maptools instance closed with no message (I'm using it for play by post to make screenshots and maptools is open almost all day in the background) not gamebreaking for me but maybe for other people.

Edit: i'm on 1.5.8rc2

Edit2: installed 1.5.6 just for testing and indeed memory usage is 300Mb lower when loading the same campaign without touching anything. Even an empty map takes twice in new versions (240 vs 130 for an empty map)

Post Reply

Return to “MapTool”