Hiding the Garbedaly Gook

Thoughts, Help, Feature Requests, Bug Reports, Developing code for...

Moderators: dorpond, trevor, Azhrei

Forum rules
PLEASE don't post images of your entire desktop, attach entire campaign files when only a single file is needed, or generally act in some other anti-social behavior. :)
User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Hiding the Garbedaly Gook

Post by thelevitator »

I know I read that people have already requested this, but I'm very anxious to know when we might be able to hide the details of the roll in the chat window?

I had a game test kinda fall apart on me before we even got started because the roll display looked overly complicated and was difficult for my player to use.

It was a bit frustrating, because when my player told me how he preferred the information to display, it was displaying exactly what he wanted....but with the process and all the modifiers all displayed, which makes a roll with a lot of modifiers very intimidating. Maptools is doing an awesome job of allowing me to create just about any kind of roll/modifier I want. But it would look a lot better in the chat window if it only displayed the information that the players need.

What I'm hoping for is that I can turn this:


Public:
CinEpic Roll = « val = 1dF + 1dF + 1dF + 1dF ⇒ val = (-1 + -1 + 0 + 1) = -1 » Offensive Combat Skill = « val + Weapon1 + Weapon1Speed + OffensiveStance + OpponentDefensiveStance + Injuries + MultipleOpponents + OffensiveCombatModifier ⇒ -1 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 3 » Defensive Combat Modifier = « val + Weapon1 + Weapon1Reach + DefensiveStance + Injuries + MultipleOpponents + DefensiveCombatModifier ⇒ -1 + 1 + 0 + -2 + 0 + 0 + 0 = -2 » Damage = « val + ODF1 + Weapon1 + Strength + Scale + Injuries + TotalDamageModifier ⇒ -1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 3 » DDF Bludgeoning = « val + Agility + Scale + ArmorBludgeoning + Weapon1Parry + Shield + Injuries ⇒ -1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 » DDF Piercing = « val + Agility + Scale + ArmorPiercing + Weapon1Parry + Shield + Injuries ⇒ -1 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 » DDF Slashing = « val + Agility + ArmorSlashing + Weapon1Parry + Shield + Injuries ⇒ -1 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0 »« OffensiveCombatModifier = 0 ⇒ OffensiveCombatModifier = 0 = 0 »« DefensiveCombatModifier = 0 ⇒ DefensiveCombatModifier = 0 = 0 »« TotalDamageModifier = 0 ⇒ TotalDamageModifier = 0 = 0 »

to this:

CinEpic Roll = 1 + 0 + -1 + 1 = 1

Offensive Combat Skill = 3
Defensive Combat Skill = 1
Damage = 5

Defense Bludgeoning = 3
Defense Piercing = 3
Defense Slashing = 4

Now a good chunk of this was my fault in how I designed the rolls and token properties. Rather than have created a separate stat for each potential modifier, I should have just created stats that combined all of the static modifiers. By doing that, I've already gone a long way to simplifying both the display and speeding up our combat.

So I'm curious to know when we might have the option to hide the details of the roll and just display the text we want to show and the result?

But I will say, that although we didn't get to actually test out the system, I learned more about my system from a player's standpoint and a design standpoint in one night than I have in the last month.
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

User avatar
UntoldGlory
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm

Post by UntoldGlory »

Holy crap, that macro would choke an elephant!

User avatar
brad
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1233
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:27 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Post by brad »

A lot of people have been asking for the feature of having the equations hid and just seeing the result. I forget what what trevor's response was. I think it was going to happen for sure in 1.4, but maybe before the end of 1.3. I would have to go back and search.

A couple helpful hints that can make that big crazy first macro easier to look at(I make mine big and all inclusive as well). Use the <br> tag a couple times between each roll, to give yourself a line or two of white space. Also, I have seen people using tables to format their output. I have been thinking about using them myself. Tables are an easy part of html to learn. You could find some tutorials online or just look at some of the examples that have been floating around the forum.
View MapTool video tutorials at RPToolsTutorials.net

User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Post by thelevitator »

I've consolidated values into single stats, and I was able to get the display down to this:


CinEpic Roll = « val = 1dF + 1dF + 1dF + 1df ⇒ val = (-1 + 1 + 0 + 1) = 1 »

OffensiveCombat Skill = « val + CombatSkill + OStance+ Injuries ⇒ 1 + 4 + 0 + -2 = 3 »
Defensive Combat Skill = « val + CombatSkill + DStance + Injuries ⇒ 1 + 4 + 0 + -2 = 3 »
ODF = « val + ODF + OStance ⇒ 1 + 6 + 0 = 7 »
DDF = « val + DDF + DStance ⇒ 1 + 3 + 0 = 4 »


This makes combat so much easier for the GM. All you do is compare the attacker's Offensive Combat Skill total against the defender's Defensive Combat Skill. If your number is greater, you hit. Then, just compare your ODF (Offensive Damage Factor) to your opponent's DDF (Defensive Damage Factor). By subtracting DDF from ODF, you get the amount of damage. It's a very simple system, but I want that to translate in the display, as one of my players still thinks it's TMI.

Currently this system is using a simplified armor system. I think I'm going to go back to having separate values for Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing weapons. So, instead of the single DDF (Defensive Damage Factor) entry, there would be 3 entries: DR Bludgeoning, DR Piercing, and DR Slashing. This still look a LOT better than the first one.

I still think it would be great to be able to "hide" whatever you wanted in your roll. For instance, in my system, it's important to know the individual die rolls, but the only things I need to show up in the different results is the final number.

Any estimate on when something like this might find its way into TM Trev ( ask, knowing there are more important things being implemented right now <ducks>)?
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

User avatar
UntoldGlory
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm

Post by UntoldGlory »

Yeah, that looks waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Post by thelevitator »

Thanks UG! I was such an idiot with the first attempt. But thanks to Doubleking's feedback, I realized I was taking the long way home. The nice thing about the current display is that it corresponds better to the character sheet.

I'm still hoping to have the ability to make it even shorter, if/when it becomes possible to hide the calculations and just display the results.
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

Keterys
Kobold
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:46 pm

Post by Keterys »

I just put almost all the math into the properties.

So I've got ATK1=23 instead of d20+Str+HalfLevel+Prof+Enh+1 or whatever.

It's not optimal, but it's a heck of a lot better.

User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Post by thelevitator »

That's what I've done now. The only math now are the variable modifiers like Injuries and Combat Stances. This has definitely helped to make the output more readable. It's about as condensed as it can be right now. I could go a step further and add total variable fields, but that would require the abilty to put equations in the token properties. I don't believe that's possible yet. But that would be totally awesome. That would condense the math and make the calculations be as small as you wanted them to be.

Would that even be possible to add to MT? I mean, to be able to put equations in the token properties? Something like:

*@VariableOffensiveModifiers = [Scale + WeaponSpeed]

With that capability, you could pare your math down to a single [val + variable] output. Would this be something that adding scripting to Token Properties would make possible?
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

User avatar
Steel Rat
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1758
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:55 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Contact:

Post by Steel Rat »

Where does one even learn how to do the macros?
Steel Rat
-----------
Helm's Deep RPG Network
Infinite Realities - RPG Supplements.
RPGMapShare.com - RPG Maps and Mapping objects.

User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Post by thelevitator »

I learned what I know from watching Brad's tutorial videos. That, and a lot of experimentation. Another good source here for macros is Craig. He's the one who showed me how to use a single roll multiple times. My FUDGE game wouldn't be the same without it! :)
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

User avatar
Steel Rat
Great Wyrm
Posts: 1758
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:55 pm
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Contact:

Post by Steel Rat »

Is there a syntax sample anywhere? What operators can be used, etc...
Steel Rat
-----------
Helm's Deep RPG Network
Infinite Realities - RPG Supplements.
RPGMapShare.com - RPG Maps and Mapping objects.

User avatar
kat2cute
Dragon
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:46 pm

Post by kat2cute »

Steel Rat wrote:Is there a syntax sample anywhere? What operators can be used, etc...

I've been updating the Maptool documentation a little bit to find macro syntax easier.
http://rptools.net/doku.php?id=maptooldoc_1_3:chat

As for direct examples, Brad's tutorials did a really good job of showing all the basics of macros. I guess more direct examples should be included in the documentation though.
Quote from an underwater D&D fight:
Alright fighter, it's your turn. What do you do?
Fighter: What do you think I do? I FAIL MY F**KING SWIM CHECK

Craig
Great Wyrm
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:53 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Craig »

thelevitator wrote:That's what I've done now. The only math now are the variable modifiers like Injuries and Combat Stances. This has definitely helped to make the output more readable. It's about as condensed as it can be right now. I could go a step further and add total variable fields, but that would require the abilty to put equations in the token properties. I don't believe that's possible yet. But that would be totally awesome. That would condense the math and make the calculations be as small as you wanted them to be.

Would that even be possible to add to MT? I mean, to be able to put equations in the token properties? Something like:

*@VariableOffensiveModifiers = [Scale + WeaponSpeed]

With that capability, you could pare your math down to a single [val + variable] output. Would this be something that adding scripting to Token Properties would make possible?


You can
Say you have a property OffMod you can make it
Scale + WeaponSpeed
no = no brackets just what you would normally put between the [ ]
Then when you use OffMod in a token macro it will substitute the value of Scale + WeaponSpeed.
You will only see the value of OffMod in the expanded roll not the values for Scale and Weapon speed. So you can still have all your formulas in the properties but get a shorter output. This way when one thing changes you wont have recalculate everything manually.

Phergus
Deity
Posts: 7132
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere, NM
Contact:

Post by Phergus »

In particular you want to look at the Dicelib and Parser links at the bottom of the 1.3 chat page.

User avatar
thelevitator
Dragon
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: "The Biggest Little City In The World!"
Contact:

Post by thelevitator »

Craig wrote:You can
Say you have a property OffMod you can make it
Scale + WeaponSpeed
no = no brackets just what you would normally put between the [ ]
Then when you use OffMod in a token macro it will substitute the value of Scale + WeaponSpeed.
You will only see the value of OffMod in the expanded roll not the values for Scale and Weapon speed. So you can still have all your formulas in the properties but get a shorter output. This way when one thing changes you wont have recalculate everything manually.


I'm a little confused. I tried doing what I thought you were saying and it didn't work. Here's what I tried.

1. I went in to the Campaign Properties and selected Token Properties
2. I created a new Token Property. I entered: OMod1 = w1 + Injuries + Reflexes + os. I didn't use any brackets.
3. I modified the token's attack macro, replacing the modifiers with OMod1.
4. When I tried to attack, the pop-up appeared and asked for the OMod1 value.
5. I then got a null exception in the chat window.


I'm confused about how and where to enter this. Do I just put what you described into the attack macro directly?
"Neither hexes nor squares can confine me!"

James Anthony
"It's all in your head....."
http://www.spelz.net

Post Reply

Return to “MapTool”