[GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

MapTool campaign files that encapsulate properties, tokens, and macros for a particular ruleset or game world. "Framework" is often abbreviated "FW".

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JML
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by JML »

Well, putting things this way, 2*DR is just EP in disguise :)

This just means that flexible armours have a default EP = DR, waiting for you to customize it later on if you will :wink:

By the way, as I didn't keep up with the original GURPS thread, I've got another question on this :
Winter wrote:With that caveat, I'd welcome any converter work you feel you can do. I'm a GCS user myself, so I'd be happy to test.
Do you plan to do anything close to GCS in your framework ?

Winter
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Winter »

JML wrote:Well, putting things this way, 2*DR is just EP in disguise :)

This just means that flexible armours have a default EP = DR, waiting for you to customize it later on if you will :wink:

I suppose I could implement it such that armor has EP = DR by default. Shouldn't be too much extra work, and would allow later customization.

JML wrote:Do you plan to do anything close to GCS in your framework ?

Oof. Certainly not in MapTool 1.3, and probably not ever, unless this becomes a paying project. Since the the awkward, limited MTScript language will be replaced by Javascript in MapTool 1.4, it makes little sense to invest hundreds of hours of programming, debugging, and data entry in new MTScript code until MapTool 1.4 is stable. A far better use of time would be to create a GCS-to-Maptool converter in Java, as has been suggested above.

On a more fundamental level, I'm reluctant to try to create a full-blown character builder in MapTool. GURPS has a notoriously complex ruleset. GCS and its official analogue, GCA, are excellent character-construction aids that have been in development for years, and even they sometimes don't get the rules right. Duplicating the functionality of either GCA or GCS in MapTool would require hundreds of hours of programming, debugging, and data entry to solve a problem that's twice been seriously addressed and (mostly) solved.

There's also something to be said in favor of keeping token creation simple. Many, if not most, token creations will be for mooks and monsters that don't require a full character sheet. For those, the streamlined token structure is relatively quick and easy: pull in a png, change the default attributes, and slap on weapons and armor. For those PCs and important NPCs that require a full character sheet, we can aim for a GCS importer.
Last edited by Winter on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Winter
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Winter »

I'm very aware that token creation is too slow, by the way. I'm building up a library of MapTool tokens for basic monsters and NPCs for distribution with the next version of the framework. These will include all the animals in the Basic Set, plus a few goblins and trolls, and 50-, 150-, and 250-point NPCs of canonical fantasy mook types: thug, cutpurse, guardsman, and guard captain. It'll be easy to add equivalents for high-tech and ultra-tech campaigns, and a bestiary of the usual dragons and griffins and whatnot. With such a library, adding in a new monster will usually require only the modification of an existing token.

I've got a large library of PNGs to draw on, and a good list of monsters and NPCs to start with. Any suggestions?

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JML
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by JML »

Winter wrote:I suppose I could implement it such that armor has EP = DR by default. Shouldn't be too much extra work, and would allow later customization.

I did also think it wasn't much extra effort, which is why I did suggest it. But I don't know how many people would be interested (apart from me :wink: ).

Winter wrote:
JML wrote:Do you plan to do anything close to GCS in your framework ?

Oof. Certainly not in MapTool 1.3, and probably not ever, unless this becomes a paying project. Since the the awkward, limited MTScript language will be replaced by Javascript in MapTool 1.4, it makes little sense to invest hundreds of hours of programming, debugging, and data entry in new MTScript code until MapTool 1.4 is stable. A far better use of time would be to create a GCS-to-Maptool converter in Java, as has been suggested above.

On a more fundamental level, I'm reluctant to try to create a full-blown character builder in MapTool. GURPS has a notoriously complex ruleset. GCS and its official analogue, GCA, are excellent character-construction aids that have been in development for years, and even they sometimes don't get the rules right. Duplicating the functionality of either GCA or GCS in MapTool would require hundreds of hours of programming, debugging, and data entry to solve a problem that's twice been seriously addressed and (mostly) solved.

I surely understand the time consuming point, especially as 1.4 seems a bit closer, but I was only seeing it as a far and final goal, not a next month project :wink: Building a framework is a step by step process anyway and at least GCS took the same path. You just pile up one functionality after the other and things get done when they happen to be… However, just being able to display a GCS converted PC would already be quite a piece of work :?

I've got no Java experience, otherwise I'd try to give a hand to the MT team, but if you would use some help on your framework…

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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Woodman »

Tokens can be uploaded to the rptools gallery, we could uses that for sharing th ones we made for different purposes. I'm in the process of adapting beneath Castle everglory to Maptool and have entered some creatures of that module into maptool and just uploaded the tokenfiles to my gallery http://gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/Woodman/GURPSTokens/

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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Winter »

I'm trying to wrap up a new release in the next month. Please let me know about bugs so I can stomp them.

lyobovnik
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by lyobovnik »

Wrathchild & Winter,

Thanks so much for all your work on this!

I'm trying it out now for the first time. I am new to MapTool as well. After having it recommended by one of my players, I'm trying it out on an existing (fantasy) GURPS campaign I GM.

I look forward to seeing what new things are possible with MapTool & your FrameWork. :D

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Dadalama
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Dadalama »

I really hope this ends up being completed

aelana
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by aelana »

This looks awesome but I can't wrap my head around a few things:

1. What is the proper way to set conditions. If I set it via right click or double clicking on the token, it shows up on the map but not on the character sheet. If I use the macro buttons it shows up on the character sheet but I don't seem to have any way to clear a condition.

2. Is move restricted? If so does it properly count changing facing in the move calculations? I can't seem to figure out how the movement calculations / turn stuff interacts.

Either way cool framework.

Winter
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Winter »

Hi, aelana. Thanks for trying out the framework.

1. What is the proper way to set conditions. If I set it via right click or double clicking on the token, it shows up on the map but not on the character sheet. If I use the macro buttons it shows up on the character sheet but I don't seem to have any way to clear a condition.

Click on the blue boldface Conditions above the list of conditions. That'll clear the conditions. It's obviously not the best method. I'm working on inserting delete signs after each condition which will remove it.

2. Is move restricted? If so does it properly count changing facing in the move calculations?

No, Move isn't restricted. There's a macro plugin someone developed which will allow restricted move, but I haven't integrated it into our framework yet. Changes in facing aren't calculated. I've got a notion of how to do it, but I'm inclined to wait till MapTool 1.4, when I can do it in Javascript. For now, I'm afraid you'll have to keep an eye on what your players do, and enforce movement restrictions the old-fashioned way.

I can't seem to figure out how the movement calculations / turn stuff interacts.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean that the relationship between Basic Speed ("turn sequence" or "initiative order") and Move is unclear in the framework?

aelana
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by aelana »

Winter wrote:
I can't seem to figure out how the movement calculations / turn stuff interacts.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean that the relationship between Basic Speed ("turn sequence" or "initiative order") and Move is unclear in the framework?


No you answered it already, that question was dependent on move being restricted. I am actually glad its not. Thanks for the tip about clearing conditions! That might be something you want to add to the doc on the front page.

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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by Winter »

I ran a session Saturday night using the new MapTools release, 1.3b88. I noticed a few minor problems with the release, but the framework itself seemed to work fine. Any bug reports from other users?

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brexor
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by brexor »

A couple years ago, I and my GM decided we were gonna play GURPS over maptool and we hammered out a dirty (and clunky) framework. Fastforward to 6 weeks ago and I stumbled upon this one! HOLY smokes is it good. we decide to merge yours (beautiful btw) with some of the goodies of ours (sorta homely) and the result is this:
GURPS-merge.cmpgn
(3.44 MiB) Downloaded 167 times

Rough, yes, but it adds some stuff we really liked. Give it a stab.
EDIT--have made some tweeks since last upload.
GURPS-merge1.01.cmpgn
(4.27 MiB) Downloaded 206 times

lyobovnik
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by lyobovnik »

When adding a weapon, what is "AD"? Sorry, but I'm blanking out on this.

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brexor
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Re: [GURPS] Wrathchild / Winter's FW v2 (BETA)

Post by brexor »

Armor Divisor. As far as I know, it isn't used (yet) for any calculations or formulae.

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