[Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

MapTool campaign files that encapsulate properties, tokens, and macros for a particular ruleset or game world. "Framework" is often abbreviated "FW".

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Jacklifear
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Jacklifear »

Livecast information:

9:30 pm (ish) on Saturday nights (Central standard time)
http://www.twitch.tv/legacyobserverother?format=html

Right now we don't have any macros in cause the time I _DO_ have I'm working on getting people to start the transfer process for their characters. My macros I have on my old 1.0 campaign, I'll see what I can do about transferring them to 2.0 (The code HAS to have changed regarding talent list and skill list lookups. I had jury rig code in his code to allow my odd code to work...er.. yeah, that makes sense) It's obvious he has the "intended way" to do it, so I may have to touch base with Telarus when I'm doing so. Our group has confirmed we aren't proceeding with an adventure this week, we're just doing hard setup on 2.0 and BSing. So the livecast might not be more than "watch a bunch of people talk/insult each other while you see the GM try to fix things on the framework" session. Those happen :)

Regarding macros... Before I proceed I want to bring to you to Telarus, is your preference to have buttons for each talent/skill? Or use the dropdown like I had before? Each had pros and cons. Thoughts?

EDIT: Soultroubadour... you kick donkey my dear man.

Telarus
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Telarus »

Hey man, if you want to work with me on updating your macros today, I've got some free time this afternoon. We can get some of your core up and running with the new framework in no-time.

I've looked over, but not dug into the universal inventory system, sounds like it's worth checking out tho.

Jack, let me take another look at your 1.0 campaign file you sent me.

Soultroubadour
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Soultroubadour »

Right on Jack- I'll check that livestream out tonight. I would love to get a peek at some of those updated macros you guys are brewing for this.
The universal inventory is interesting. In the most interesting experiment I defined slot types like...
MatrixRank1
MatrixRank2
MatrixRank3
I set the slots to equip item types that are appropriate such as...
1st circle spell
2nd Circle Spell
3rd Circle Spell
Now if i can get the slots to rank up with the talents in the 2.0 frame I would be on the way to a working spell matrix doodad- Pretty cool. I'm having issues with undefined values though. I have built the Bazaar like 12 times now and I keep breaking it on the last step- so I haven't got to populating these inventories with items yet, but I do have excellent notes on how to structure the inventories and properties though. I'm proud to say that fter a few iterations I have taken into account nearly every potential characteristic of an Earthdawn item- and thats no small feat.

Jacklifear
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Jacklifear »

@Telarus - I assume that means you'll look into the one you already have. If not, that's fine I'll reupload as needed. We're running into some hard issues with the inventory system tonight. Honestly, we're almost to the point we can be before we hang up for the night and do an alternate activity like League of Legends.

@Soultroubadour, so your looking into universal inventory system.. I understand now. Good luck with that. As inventory is causing the largest issue for us, We're looking at what we can do before next week to get that "setup".

Soultroubadour
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Soultroubadour »

haha sorry I was late to the party! If either of you guys would like to chat with me directly or work on any macros for this frame tonight hit me up on skype- Soultroubadour1

Telarus
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Telarus »

Man, I need to get a good microphone.

Jack, any more details on the problems you're having with Inventory?

Telarus
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Telarus »

Hey, just caught some of the webcast. Sorry I wasn't clear that the templates aren't included yet.

It sucks that the inventory issues killed your momentum. If I had caught you earlier, I probably would have recommended c&p in the Notes field of the token and figuring out equipment values later.

I will say that hearing some people try to use it for the first time definitely told me where I need to tighten up the user interface.

It seems that single quotes do break the journal... doom. I'll have to see about catching those and replacing them w/ HTML code..

Also, if folding Soultroubador's inventory work into the framework would be the easiest way to avoid future frustration, I'm cool with that.

As the coder, I really feel each frustration voiced, but it also really helps me to see where I need to make those improvements. I guess I just wanted to thank your group for playtesting the code, and let them know that their frustration wasn't pointless.

I'll see about getting a start on these issues this week some-time.

Soultroubadour
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Soultroubadour »

On the face I really like the way the layout and look of the inventory as is. I've been exploring the drop-in with the idea that it might make a good skeleton on which to build the inventory system you really want- and potentially offer some other capabilities. I'll spend some more time working on it tomorrow and see if I can come up with something functional to show...

Jacklifear
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Jacklifear »

Skype works here too: Jacklifear

Sorry man, I definitely didn't mean to make you feel bad but I'm glad to see how the feedback is able to help you focus/angle it. The good news is the majority of the painstaking work is behind you. It's just identifying how you want to change it and work forward. Regarding the inventory, if you allow/finish the template code, that's ALL that I think we'll need. It'll take time to work hard to get the templates implemented but once all the data entry is done, working it further will be a solid way to proceed.

In testing though, the inventory idea of "setting containers that people have to sort through" is actually becoming a burden. Sometimes people just want to glance and see "I got a torch". Other than that, if you want to touch base, let me know. Remember, we can just IM on skype, no need for a mic. See ya soon and thanks. The one major thing that people are saying regarding it is that the character creation is much more slick... but really... it just needs tweaks for user friendliness.

I'm mulling over ideas into a general "suggestion list" that might help out.

Telarus
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Telarus »

Suggestions lists are awesome. I have to admit, the confusion on the inventory was probably because when the page variables broke last weekend and I had to get the pages done, I went with [wiki=input]input()[/wiki] as the quick way to get info onto the token. I'll be coding some custom Dialogs probably, along with checking out strformat() & the universal inventory system.

Jacklifear
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Jacklifear »

A suggestion I'm bringing up now before I get to the list (as you might work on this code before the rest) is that I think you need to change the convension for "editing" to be more than just the underlined words. There are times that you would click a header, just to do something specific with an item.

For example
1. Click inventory (load time)
2. Select container from dropdown
3. Refresh container
4. Select item from dropdown
5. Choose action button

While this "works" I think intuitive interface would involve buttons to the right of the items on a list with less flavor. The current view is good for some things, but REALLY, a basic list is what people need the majority of the time. To avoid the entire 5 step process to get what you want from an item.. you could have basic buttons to represent "most common functions" to the right of each item and have it as a basic vertical list.

Listed from Right to Left:
- Button "X": Remove or Delete the Item
- Button "Pen and Paper": Edit the information about this item. (Change "Torch" to "Spent torch" or edit quantity)
- Button "Bag": Change container of item

Then at the top of the "list" where it says "Inventory" you could have some buttons to the right of that
- Button "+": Add an item to your inventory
- Button "Handshake": Give an item to another PC or NPC
- Button "Pen and Paper": Edit your inventory as a whole

With this done, move template editing to the GM screen as it should be something the GM prepares. Just some thoughts regarding inventory.

Jacklifear
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Jacklifear »

A paraphrase from the friend who was working with the 3 rugs for a long time:

"If I create all the statistics for the rugs and don't check a checkbox, it deletes all the data and I have to restart. If I accidentally click on two checkboxes, it deletes all the data and I have to restart. I almost wish that there was no issue with checkboxes... cause I'm getting sick of restarting"

With this in mind, might I suggest:

"Clicking 'OK' gives a 'confirmation window' that makes sure that your checkbox selections are fine."
Best solution IMHO: Make it a multi-step process. Instead of having all those tabs, have a first "window" where you select your item type and on the second page you enter the data. This would remove the need for checkboxes and would be more standard to the character creation process.

Peloquinn
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Peloquinn »

Hey Telarus,

I've been an ED GM for about 13 years, and I think that this framework is probably the greatest online resource I've discovered...so, kudos to you, namegiver!

Problem is - I can't seem to get it to work. I'm, admittedly, a maptool newbie (only run a marvel game with it once, and did well but never used a framework), so I'm sure the error is on my end, but a quick tip on what I'm doing wrong would be great, if you have a moment to help me out.

I d/l'd your framework, opened up maptool, clicked file -> open campaign, opened the .cmpgn file and now I'm staring at a black map screen with nothing in the campaign properties, no macros on the macro tab...no GM screen that I can see...nothing really. Everything looks just like a normal opening of maptool save for the map is black and not loaded with grass. Can you throw me a bone here? I'd really like to start delving into the work you've done.

Pel

Soultroubadour
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Soultroubadour »

Sounds like you're in player view with the lights out... Try clicking view and see if 'player view' is selected- if so- unselect. Also go to 'map' and make sure that the fog of war is off and vision is set to day.

Once you get the lights turned on go to 'window' then select campaign. With the campaign window open you can select a token and hit the 'setup token' button...

Let me know how it goes :)

Telarus
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Re: [Earthdawn 3rd Edition] Telarus' ED3 Framework v2.0

Post by Telarus »

I agree with Soultroubador's advice. First, check your maptool version is 1.3b86/1.3b87 (these are the ones I did development in).

When you open the campaign, verify that you're on the right map (the only map included is "0. - GM's Library", which if you check the Globe icon, upper right, should be highlighted in blue).

If you're on the right map, the only way to have a completely black screen is Night vision mode, Fog of War on, and Player's View enabled.... Disable those, and see if you can see the "books background", the 2 lib:tokens, and the 4 other tokens.

Let us know what happens....




Jack, will definitely think on the inventory input, thanks for the condensed feedback.

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