Part 1: Rescue at Rivenroar

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End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Well, while I do focus on ranged combat, my ability to heal and do other things is limiting in terms of my ability to do damage. BTW Fallacy, I couldn't find a link to your character anywhere, and I was having fun seeing what all of my allies were about. Any chance you'll post it? (Or show me where you already did; good odds that I'm being oblivious. ^^)

Fallacy
Kobold
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by Fallacy »

As long as you can hit what you're aiming at.
I'm just worried about damage since we only have 1 striker who is a rogue and the awesomeness that is commanders strike only goes so far.
Everyone has a different perception of the world, but there is only one world.

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Haha, I was worried about being able to hit too, since I'll be level 1 when I enter the fray. I picked at-will powers that let me choose between reflex and will, though, so hopefully that will improve my odds a little. If I have to swing at AC, however, it could be trouble. My hope is that we'll be able to outlast everything with all of the minor action heals we've got going on. That being said, some extra damage would certainly be nice.

[Edit] I read that and realized I was being silly. My melee basic attack is at +3 just like my two ranged at will powers, because it uses Strength and not Charisma for the roll. Still, we'll have to wait and see I suppose. I'll go look at level 1-3 monsters in Monster Manual 1 to see what kind of odds I'm looking at. I know I looked at a Dire Rat, and it has a Will Save of... I think 11? So I'm rolling d20+3 against that, which means I need 8 or better, which means I'll have a 60% chance to hit. I'll post some more after I look at it.

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Alright.

Against:
Halfling Slinger (level 1) - Will Save: 13 = 50% chance to hit.
Halfing Stout (level 2) - 14 = 45% chance to hit
Fire Beetle (level 1) - 11 = 60% chance to hit
Against Goblin Blackblades (level 1), Cutters (level 1 minion), and Sharpshooters (level 2), 60% chance to hit.
Against Goblin Warriors (level 1) and Goblin Skullcleavers (level 3) - 55% chance to hit.

Odds are similar against zombies, pretty bad against imps (which are level 3, admittedly), and a coin flip against a wererat (which are also level 3).

My odds of hitting aren't too terrible (and I suppose if you're really worried I can move some stats around, and switch feats from Quick Draw to Implement Mastery and use wands, to get +2 to my attacks and have even better chances of hitting them [something I'm considering taking anyways])

I dunno. What are your thoughts? :) Always interested in input.
(If I was to move my stats around I'd probably ditch str and some dex to go for higher charisma.) Hmmmm... actually I'm intrigued by that and I'm gonna go check it out. Let's see how it goes!

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Oooo, looking at it, I like the way that looks on paper, and it goes more along with what I wanted to do anyways (sit back and "conduct" the fight). I think I'll do that. Soooo... raise all of those values up above by 10% chance to hit.

Good thing you pointed it out to me. :D I usually remember to go check and make sure I can hit stuff before I do things. I'll have to PM Plissken and make sure he knows about the changes (hopefully he hasn't gone all out on my token ^^)

Oh, once per encounter I can also almost guarantee combat advantage for a turn via Bluff (+11 bluff is hard to beat. :X)

Fallacy
Kobold
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by Fallacy »

Fighting monsters on level is pretty rare. Normally it's level 3-5 from what I've seen so far, and of course "bosses" are generally a bit stronger.

I'd rather not depend on having lots of heals since I'd really only like the clerics, Healers Lore ftw, I don't have any trouble position monsters, footwork lure and pass forward ftw, and it's alot more common to simply run out of surges with more leaders.

Since the DM doesn't seem to mind letting us go back for extendeds all that much I guess it's not a problem, I just prefer to finish off enemies quickly and tactically rather than let it go on longer due to poor decisions ( hording AP's/encounter powers/daily item powers)

As for bluff... it's a standard action, once per combat, I could see it being practical if you were a rogue that could attack on a minor and deal your sneak attack, otherwise not so much.
Everyone has a different perception of the world, but there is only one world.

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Ah, I see, I see. Well, one thing I can say is that during short rests bards can reduce the number of healing surges spent (HP bonus equal to my cha modifier per healing surge spent), so that should help some in terms of running out of healing surges. Also, with the changes I've made I'm at slightly better than a coin-flip against quite a few enemies at level 5 (Bugbear Warrior 55%, Blazing Skeleton 45%, Boneshard Skeleton 50%, Gelatinous Cube (elite) 50%, Orc Eye of Gruumsh (leader) 50%) and I'm not sure how much higher I could make my hit chance with any other class (though the hits themselves would probably do more damage, I suppose). But truthfully, I'm not sure I'd want to play another class. I like where this bard's at. For the sake of comparison, however (and since I have too much time on my hands right now) I'll try rolling up someone with heavier damage and see what happens.

On a related note, what's healer's lore?

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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Alright, so the main differences (in terms of combat effectiveness) between a Bard and a Warlock is the 1d6 extra damage per attack (pretty much per attack). In terms of actually hitting, my odds are higher once I've hit with eyebite (I become invisible to them, they grant me combat advantage, I get +2 to attack).

Between encounters people spend more healing surges because there won't be any Songs of Rest. People are more likely to get hit (although I'll concede that if the target dies faster it will get less chances to swing) because I won't be penalizing their attacks. Less in combat healing.

That's all at level 1. Over time the disparity in damage will surely grow, though I doubt the hit chance will improve that greatly comparatively. I want to use magic of some kind, so I don't really want to play ranger or rogue, so I dunno man. :x Sorcerer just seems weird to me. I dunno.

Fallacy
Kobold
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by Fallacy »

Re: Song of Rest
Better to just use remaining word powers during/before the rest as either, the defender will be the only one really hurt, everyone will be dead or others just have scratches that are less then their healing surge value.

Healers Lore: Clerics add their wisdom mod to HP healed by Cleric powers. This is in addition to the healing value of the power themselves, so for single target healing they come out on top.

As long as you can deliver the awesome effect of bard's at wills and work in a team I don't think anyone's expecting you to deal 1d6+54 damage a round, that's my job.
Everyone has a different perception of the world, but there is only one world.

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

That was the plan from the start. :) One of the things I like about the overhaul that is 4e is the emphasis on team work and tactics. Seemed like before the closest thing to tactics was, "Melee in front of Sorcerer. Sorcerer cast fireball. Enemies die." Now it's more about focusing down one guy by stacking benefits for your guys and penalties for him. That reminds me, do you guys do a lot of flanking? If so I could always take... I think it's called Distant Advantage out of PHB2. Lets me use combat advantage on ranged attacks when my allies are flanking. Although I suppose I could save that for level 2, since Wand Expertise has me constantly at +1, which I like. :)

Fallacy
Kobold
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by Fallacy »

I generally use my movement abilities (Pass Forward and Footwork Lure to give it to whatever rogue is around at the moment but I don't know if I remember it happening often enough for it to be worth taking that feat over other things at first level.
Everyone has a different perception of the world, but there is only one world.

End of Hero
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Hmmm, I think I'll wait and see then. I'm more inclined to take things like Durable (+2 healing surges), since we have a ton of healing, or Bardic Knowledge, since it seems kind of in line with my character. Truly, I'm not sure what else I could take, though. Improved Initiative would be alright, I suppose, but I'm not sure what else I would take.
Maybe more skill training, or skill focus, or toughness? Hmmm... what's out of PHB2...
Ok. Improved Majestic Word is probably coming in at level 2. Then it's healing surge + Charisma Modifier + Charisma Modifier Temp HP... Ooo, timely respite is kind of neat, too.

I dunno, what are your thoughts? :) My experience with 4e is limited to 1/3 of a dungeon crawl that happened when the PHB first came out.

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palmer
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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by palmer »

End of Hero wrote:Alright, so the main differences (in terms of combat effectiveness) between a Bard and a Warlock is the 1d6 extra damage per attack (pretty much per attack). In terms of actually hitting, my odds are higher once I've hit with eyebite (I become invisible to them, they grant me combat advantage, I get +2 to attack).
Only if you can make any extra attacks.
The invisibilitywears off at the START of your next turn, meaning that you no longer have CA once you're able to make your next attack.

It'll only help in that sense if you're making extra attacks, like Opportunity Attacks, special attacks that are Minor actions, or spending Action Points.

The invisibility clause of Eyebite is primarily a DEFENSIVE benefit.

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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Oh hey, that's nifty. Regardless, I've opted to stay bard. :) I changed my stats around quite a bit, however, and will now planning on Multi-classing quite a bit in the next few levels. I didn't realize how nifty the ability to multi-class into several different classes was! (I'll probably end up with eyebite anyways :D) What's really hilarious about it is that if I ever felt like taking a skill training feat I'd be better off just multi-classing into a class that has it available for training. Instead of taking a Skill Training in Thievery, I could just take multi-class thief. :D

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Re: 4e D&D - Scales of War - Rescue at Rivenroar

Post by End of Hero »

Oh boy, I get to start at level 2! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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