Rumble's 4E Framework, Version 5 - Discussion

[Deadolus]

I think this has been talked about before, but after 20 minutes of looking I was unable to find anything specific to this problem/design issue.

When a monster’s power is run by the DM and the power hits, the “Hit” descriptive text is not visible to players in the chat. I think the same is true when a power misses.

Is this by design or is this a bug? Or am I missing a setting somewhere?

Hi Rumble,

Did you miss this post? Just wondering if this is by design or if I should open a bug.

Thanks as always.

[Rumble]

Truthfully, I can't remember. I seem to recall doing that intentionally since multiple users asked for that kind of information firewalling (they didn't want to give away the info) - that is, it should display the damage, but not the additional details of the power. But I could be misremembering that, or inflating the number of people who wanted it.

I also don't remember if it's optional - is there a setting for that in the framework configuration screens?

[Kryx]

I also don't remember if it's optional - is there a setting for that in the framework configuration screens?

I don't see any option for it in the config FW button.


Rumble, I'm also noticing Trigger/Requirements/Special are not being shown in the tooltip of powers. Is this by design? Right now I'm putting the important stuff under effect to get it to show.

[Rumble]

Again, I don't know. It may be on purpose or it may just have been left out of the framework. I haven't done any serious development on this in months (all I've done is fix the occasional bug), so I'd have to rack my brain to remember whether there was some clever plan, or just an oversight there; I may never figure out what I was thinking at the time.

[Kryx]

Easy compilation of my experienced errors:

• At-Will buttons are hard to read and the text should be white.
• Monster parsing is incorrectly assigning skills - see this post
• Monster Type not being imported properly - noticing it on brutes, artillery, and lurkers
• Monster Immunity is not being setup properly for poison. Should set the multiplier of poison to 0. It is not doing this.
• Attacks that have a keyword - such as 5 necrotic damage are showing up as untyped and necrotic, shouldn't it just be necrotic?
• Untyped attacks show up as x damage untyped untyped until edited once. May have to do with the above issue as well
• Trigger/Requirements/Special are not being shown in the tooltip of powers. Is this by design? Right now I'm putting the important stuff under effect to get it to show.
• Attack and damage calculations on hover in the chat are not being shown for the gm on monsters. It says "viewable by GM only." I started the server as a GM.

Minor requested change:
Combine Skill and ability check to "check". See this post.
This is really easy - I added the code that you created in the slim framework. If you do this I'd also suggest the management button be 68 width and it lines up perfectly that way.


Hope this post helps summarize it all. Thanks again for all of your work.

[Rumble]

Thanks for the list.

At-Will buttons are hard to read and the text should be white.

Will be fixed in next release. You will have to edit every power (no need to change anything, just open and save it).

• Monster parsing is incorrectly assigning skills - see this post
• Monster Type not being imported properly - noticing it on brutes, artillery, and lurkers
• Monster Immunity is not being setup properly for poison. Should set the multiplier of poison to 0. It is not doing this.

I can't test importing - I'm not a DDI subscriber. I don't see obvious errors in the code, so I need to see tokens and statblocks of monsters that this happens on (or, if it's all monsters, I at least need some sample data to work with - PM me with it when you can). I'll also need exact explanations (including the values) of what's incorrect - e.g., "it should be X, but it's Y, and when I remove the weird bonus in management it starts adding Q to the value."

• Attacks that have a keyword - such as 5 necrotic damage are showing up as untyped and necrotic, shouldn't it just be necrotic?
• Untyped attacks show up as x damage untyped untyped until edited once. May have to do with the above issue as well
• Trigger/Requirements/Special are not being shown in the tooltip of powers. Is this by design? Right now I'm putting the important stuff under effect to get it to show.
• Attack and damage calculations on hover in the chat are not being shown for the gm on monsters. It says "viewable by GM only." I started the server as a GM.

I think the "untyped untyped" and other issues are artifacts of the way damage is listed. The first problem needs fixing so resistance works, the second is cosmetic.

As for the trigger/extra stuff, can't remember whether it's intentional. I can't reproduce the other problem - hovering over the words "GM: Attack/Damage" shows the attack and damage when I test it with the default Villain token.

Edit: Wait, you mean on the button tooltip, not the chat window? That's just an oversight. Will be fixed.

Minor requested change:
Combine Skill and ability check to "check". See this post.
This is really easy - I added the code that you created in the slim framework. If you do this I'd also suggest the management button be 68 width and it lines up perfectly that way.

As I said a few posts ago, this isn't a bug, so I'm not going to change it.

Hope this post helps summarize it all. Thanks again for all of your work.

This is very helpful! Thank you.

[Colmarr]

I was fiddling around a moment ago and noticed that EYNT effects don't seem to end properly when the target doesn't have an initiative value. (Ie. If I use goblin 1 as an initiative holder for goblins 1-5 (and goblins 2-5 are not in the initiative list) then an EYNT effect applied to goblin 3 will not automatically end at the appropriate time.) Is the solution to make sure that every monster is in the initiative list, or is this a bug?


And as a separate issue, is there a way to model something like Virtue's touch? 2/day paladin power that let's an ally make a saving throw with a +4 bonus? Creating it as an attack power breaks the 2/day tracking (saying it's consumable doesn't seem to recharge it on an extended rest), but leader powers don't seem to allow anything other than healing.

[Kryx]

Will be fixed in next release. You will have to edit every power (no need to change anything, just open and save it).

Awesome, thanks.

I can't test importing - I'm not a DDI subscriber. I don't see obvious errors in the code, so I need to see tokens and statblocks of monsters that this happens on (or, if it's all monsters, I at least need some sample data to work with - PM me with it when you can). I'll also need exact explanations (including the values) of what's incorrect - e.g., "it should be X, but it's Y, and when I remove the weird bonus in management it starts adding Q to the value."

I will PM you the info.

I think the "untyped untyped" and other issues are artifacts of the way damage is listed. The first problem needs fixing so resistance works, the second is cosmetic.

As for the trigger/extra stuff, can't remember whether it's intentional. I can't reproduce the other problem - hovering over the words "GM: Attack/Damage" shows the attack and damage when I test it with the default Villain token.

Edit: Wait, you mean on the button tooltip, not the chat window? That's just an oversight. Will be fixed.

Ya the button tooltip isn't showing the extra fields. For the attack/dmg I just noticed the GM attack/Damage in blue and hovering over those works.

As I said a few posts ago, this isn't a bug, so I'm not going to change it.

Hmmm. What if on your next release I edit it in and send it back to you - would you release that? Else I have to include my own little library for two things. :S

Essentially I want to contribute to this project since you've stopped developing. I only expect minor things due to time constraints, and I have no other fixes currently, but are you willing to have others contribute, or must we release the small fixes separately? I can send you the individual macros if that is easier.

[Rumble]

As I said a few posts ago, this isn't a bug, so I'm not going to change it.

Hmmm. What if on your next release I edit it in and send it back to you - would you release that? Else I have to include my own little library for two things. :S

Essentially I want to contribute to this project since you've stopped developing. I only expect minor things due to time constraints, and I have no other fixes currently, but are you willing to have others contribute, or must we release the small fixes separately? I can send you the individual macros if that is easier.

In the case of this specific request (and ones like it), I am trying to stick to my "bug fixes only" policy, rather than adding in new features for stuff that already works. In the broader picture, I plan to stop all work on my D&D frameworks (and public framework development in general), including bug fixes, and just let them ride as-is. In other words, the next revision to the framework will be the last.

That said, I have no problem with people making modifications/additions/contributions and distributing them by themselves or integrated into a whole campaign file, so long as I get credit where credit is due. If users want to work out a means to coordinate changes to the framework, like an SVN repository or something, that's absolutely okay with me (in fact, I suggest it). However, I don't want to be the focal point for releases to this after the final version.

[Kryx]

In the case of this specific request (and ones like it), I am trying to stick to my "bug fixes only" policy, rather than adding in new features for stuff that already works. In the broader picture, I plan to stop all work on my D&D frameworks (and public framework development in general), including bug fixes, and just let them ride as-is. In other words, the next revision to the framework will be the last.

That said, I have no problem with people making modifications/additions/contributions and distributing them by themselves or integrated into a whole campaign file, so long as I get credit where credit is due. If users want to work out a means to coordinate changes to the framework, like an SVN repository or something, that's absolutely okay with me (in fact, I suggest it). However, I don't want to be the focal point for releases to this after the final version.

Ya I plan on giving full credit. The only problem is the adoption rate is much lower - fragmentation of the framework.
Maybe I'll try to pickup where you left off after you're done though and just include a small side lib for now.

[Gubler231]

OK I have 2 questions about how to enter powers.

1. How would I enter a power effect to apply a attack bonus or penalty to the next attack that a creature makes?

2. How do I enter a power to apply a bonus to future attack rolls against a target that only the person who used the power gets the benefit?

The powers I am trying to enter are:
Disruptive Strike - The target takes a penalty to its attack roll for the triggering attack equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

and

Begin the Hunt - You gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls against that creature until it is no longer your quarry.

[Kryx]

1. How would I enter a power effect to apply a attack bonus or penalty to the next attack that a creature makes?

Not able to with this framework. No option for "next attack"

2. How do I enter a power to apply a bonus to future attack rolls against a target that only the person who used the power gets the benefit?

Not able to with this framework. Can't do targeted bonuses like that. Remember it and add it manually

[Colmarr]

Not able to with this framework. Can't do targeted bonuses like that. Remember it and add it manually

I'm away from my maptools machine at the moment, but I could have sworn I remember a field in the conditions area that allows you to specify targets. IIRC it's the one that includes the "all" descriptor in condition summaries. Wouldn't it be possible be apply the bonus as a condition to the ally?

[Gubler231]

actually I was able to figure out a way to do the +2 attack roll bonus that only the one character gets, but you can only apply it with the "manage conditions". Applying conditions through a power and using the manage condition macro are different, looks like manage conditions has a few extra features that the one associated with the powers does not.

[Rumble]

I was fiddling around a moment ago and noticed that EYNT effects don't seem to end properly when the target doesn't have an initiative value. (Ie. If I use goblin 1 as an initiative holder for goblins 1-5 (and goblins 2-5 are not in the initiative list) then an EYNT effect applied to goblin 3 will not automatically end at the appropriate time.) Is the solution to make sure that every monster is in the initiative list, or is this a bug?


And as a separate issue, is there a way to model something like Virtue's touch? 2/day paladin power that let's an ally make a saving throw with a +4 bonus? Creating it as an attack power breaks the 2/day tracking (saying it's consumable doesn't seem to recharge it on an extended rest), but leader powers don't seem to allow anything other than healing.

On the first issue, that's the way it works - as the documentations says, IIRC, you have to use the initiative window for the tracking to work. Without that, it's not going to work. So it's not a bug, it's working as expected.

On the second, I would simply create two daily powers - Virtue's Touch 1 and Virtue's Touch 2. Since I don't recall any mechanism of granting save bonuses to each other, it would just be a tracking thing, but then they'd recharge properly and so forth.

actually I was able to figure out a way to do the +2 attack roll bonus that only the one character gets, but you can only apply it with the "manage conditions". Applying conditions through a power and using the manage condition macro are different, looks like manage conditions has a few extra features that the one associated with the powers does not.

That's odd. Must be a bug - there should be next attack and this target only bonuses (they don't always track right, but they were there).